Ron Holsey and Loris Kramer are a pair of accomplished producers, that have worked together on projects such as Johnny Test. Currently they’ve teamed up to bring Interrupting Chicken to life on Apple TV+, which Ron also writes scripts for, and we here at NTG had the wonderful honor of sitting down with both of them to discuss all things Interrupting Chicken.
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John Betancourt: What were each of your roles in bringing Interrupting Chicken to life?

Ron Holsey: Yeah, well, it was a… Loris actually, and I had worked together years ago on a show called Johnny Test. And Loris was the one who found the book and thought it would make a great show. And actually, I'll let Loris you know, I'll let Loris kind of talk about it, because she's the one who had the idea for the show.

Loris Kramer: Yeah, so, Ron’s right, I had found the book, I fell in love with it. This was when it was just the first book out in the series. Now there's three of them. But I fell in love with it. It just It took a while to find, like the sort of… what I thought was the best way to approach it. And then I went to Ron who, as he said, we knew each other back from the early Johnny Test days. And I shared it with him, and he loved it. He, you know, he kind of really responded to, you know, him being a writer, himself. And it reminded him of, you know, some of what he had learned when he was younger. And how we can make that accessible to kids to tell stories. And so, that's how it happened. So, I went to him. We developed it, and then took it out and pitched it. And Apple very happily said, “yes, we want it.”

John Betancourt: What was it about this project that called to each of you?

Ron Holsey: Well, there's a few things I mean, when Loris, at first, was thinking about the show, she had the idea that the show could be used to teach sort of literary concepts. And when it was me being in elementary school in my language arts class, where we were reading The Phantom Tollbooth that I sort of got sparked to creative writing. And so, the idea that there's this sort of fun book with a bit of anarchy happening kind of appealed to my comedic sensibility. And the fact that we could use that to expose an even younger set of kids to like creative writing concepts to kind of maybe inspire them to get into creative writing, was huge for me. I'm like, “Oh, I can, you know, help influence the next generation the way that I was influenced by The Phantom Tollbooth in the past.”

Loris Kramer: Well, it was really funny, and I think that's why when I took it Ron, and he responded to it, because in the book, I mean, obviously we expanded greatly on the book, but the concept in the book, like I just remembered the… specifically the one about the father's telling her the story about Chicken Little, and she breaks into the story and says, “No, this guy's not really falling. You're fine.” Like, you know, and, and it's just funny to me. And I loved the idea that kids can insert themselves into the stories and feel part of it. And like Ron said, make them realize that they can create the stories themselves. There's no limit to what you can do. And I don't even like to use the word teach. Because it makes it sound, you know, boring. But we are enlightening kids that like, storytelling or anything is open to them. We're exposing them to storytelling and telling them they can use their imagination. And I love that.

Ron Holsey: And then just one thing I'll quickly add is that, you know, I've done a lot of stuff in educational television for kids. And usually there's, you know, concepts we're getting across that are based in science or real-world stuff. The fact that this is all about creativity means that we can be really fun and silly with the animation like, you know, squash and stretch animation and, you know, silly Looney Tune style jokes, which I love. So that kind of made it a unique, interesting show for me to do for this age group too.

John Betancourt:  Now this goes into great detail on the writing process, what went into the decision to craft a show that explored so much about storytelling?

Ron Holsey: Yeah, um, so yeah, when we initially pitched it, Loris and I, we kind of had a sort of idea that it would teach loose concepts of storytelling and framework. And when we took it to Apple, you know, Apple has Dr. Alice who is their sort of curriculum advisor, thought, you know, it would really fit in with their mission of anyone can create. And we could specifically drill down on the writing side of it, there's, you know, literacy and writing, have, you know, sort of been given short shrift, in a lot of education, and we thought we could, you know, it was our chance to sort of make a difference. And I was able to sort of think about the stuff that I've learned along the way and be able to sort of impart that to kids. And, and every episode was really interesting, because there's sort of like three story arcs happening. There's the sort of internal story and story world that's happening, there is Piper's journey, as a writer throughout that, and learning how to deal with the concept. And then of course, there's a little book end, stories that sort of mirror, the concept that's being exposed in the story. So, it was actually a very, like, complicated puzzle piece to put all the episodes together. And I know all the writers on the show, were really excited by that. And it got us to sort of play with these concepts. Where it's almost like a every story is like a laboratory where Piper can play with a different concept and see how things unfold based on changing those parameters.

Loris Kramer: No, I mean, I think he really covered that. I think, you know, like he said, we pitched it originally, as more just general storytelling. And Apple encouraged us to drill down on the writing concept. And, you know, Piper as a writer, and I don't think that's ever really been done before. I mean, there's certainly shows about reading, there’s shows about doing math, but there really hasn't been anything about writing. And, but it didn't, the interesting thing is, it didn't deviate that far from what we pitched because we were pitching a show about storytelling. So, we just, like, drill down more onto the concept of writing, but it was still all the literary devices, we pitched the show with these literary devices in it. And it just sort of, you know, expanded into this concept of Piper as a writer, which is really cool.

John Betancourt: What are you hoping audiences take away from this story, beyond learning the joy of story structure?

Loris Kramer: I want kids and their parents to just have fun. Like, I don't want them to feel like they're being taught anything. I want them to just… it should be pure entertainment. And hopefully we did that. Well, I hope that they're just enjoying the funny, silly stories that we're telling. But also, relatable. You know, like, like Ron mentioned, you know, the book ends in the real world. That's more than book ends, because we do come back and forth throughout, mirror what's going on in the story world, stories, and they're also all things relatable to kids, what they're going through in their own lives. Now we are taking it to, you know, we don't have kids on climbing beanstalks and meeting giants, but they are having to deal with these kinds of issues. And I felt like all of the real-world stuff in our show is very relatable to kids in an in a way that makes them realize that you can get through any of this stuff. And so that's totally separate from the writing part. That's more of the social, emotional aspect. And I think, you know, that comes across pretty clearly in the show as well. And that's I just want kids to enjoy it. And if they don't even realize it's about writing totally fine.
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Ron Holsey: I always want, you know, the stuff that I do. I'm a big fan of like a lot of comedy and a lot of like heart and emotional core. So, I think that, you know, our stories are not only fun and silly, but they have a little bit of like a sort of character moments and stuff that people can sort of latch on to. So, I think if I'm hitting on those two levels. I'm super happy.

John Betancourt: What does it mean to each of you to have two seasons of this out into the world?

Ron Holsey: Um, I'm just, you know, for me, I always think about the audience. And if there's kids out there who love it, and it's inspiring them, and they're laughing and they're maybe being inspired to become creative writers themselves. I'm just, I couldn't be more pleased. So, the fact that you know, the show is out there, it's got beautiful animations got a beautiful score music voice cast. We've made something I think that's, you know, really high quality for kids to enjoy. And so that's just really gratifying.

Loris Kramer: Ah, I mean, I totally agree with all of that. And we're just really thankful to, to Apple for seeing our vision and letting us bring it to life. Because I'm super proud of this show. You know, I won't name anything but like, you know, I'm not, I haven't always been as proud of everything I've done. We've all had those moments. But I am super proud of this. I just I like, I'm happy to tell everybody go watch this, go watch this. Your kids will love it. You'll you won't be annoyed by it. You know, there's, like, I think there was a lot for parents to really enjoy in the stories as well. I think a lot because of the humor.

John Betancourt: Speaking of pride, what are you each most proud of when it comes to this show?

Loris Kramer: Oh, that is a tough question. I mean, I'm just really proud of, first of all, how the show looks. I'm super proud of our casting, like not just from our, our, you know, main characters, but even all of our guest cast, like our entire team on this show was phenomenal. From literally everyone from our writers assistant, to all of the partners, the animation studio, which is Mercury Filmworks, to our casting director to our, our voice director and to the cast, so I'm just really proud creatively, and like, how the show turned out, but also to like what Ron said, like, just really happy about, you know, and proud of the message that we're sending to kids and families.
Ron Holsey: I too, am proud of the fact that we sort of interwoven a lot of… there's so much stuff going on with the show. We've interwoven character stuff, stuff that has heart, especially like our holiday special, a lot of silliness and zaniness and sort of wry humor, and this sort of educational component, and it's all sort of coming together. I feel like it's a big puzzle to put together and the fact that we're able to do that is really, really gratifying.

Loris Kramer: And the one other thing is what I really love too, is that, you know, in our story world, it's a combination of takes on well-known fairy tales, but it's not a show about fairy tales, because we have totally original stories. And we have other types of stories like Hercules, for example, like one of the episodes is, you know, like how you can write a story as artwork. We have an episode this season, which is about writing a song and rap music. And you know, with Wyclef Jean star guest starring in the episode and writing the music for that. I will say that in any calls, we made or any people we reached out to about the show from the beginning, there was no resistance. I mean Sterling K. Brown is the voice of Papa. Like, that's so cool. Um, so we're just really, I think we're just proud of all of it. But I liked that we were able to put in like, like I said, well known stories and totally original stories it didn't matter, the stories played out equally well.

Ron Holsey: I'm missing one more thing that I'm proud of that not everybody will notice. But from an animation geek perspective. So, when we did the visual development obviously have to translate the book into something that moves. But the story world that Piper jumps into, it was kind of inspired by those old Golden books. And Mercury Filmworks, the studio, did a great job of, Piper has to move between both worlds seamlessly. But like the everything in the story was more flattened, the lighting is different, even the like, the water effects are more like a Cut Out Effect, which is in the real world. So, they did such a good job of sort of, of making that distinction. Also, the music, it kind of like, there's a sort of spine that goes into the story world, it's more lush, and then it comes back to the real world. So, everything we did sort of is on this thread. And there's so many little details that everybody put a lot of work into.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

Joseph Freed and Allison Berkley are a pair of executive producers that have brought forth some fascinating documentaries throughout the years, such as The Girl Who Escaped: The Kara Robinson Story. Their current project, Krishnas: Gurus. Karma. Murder. explores the fascinating moral and financial corruption that plagued the Hare Krishna movement in the 70s and 80s, and we were fortunate enough to sit down with both of them, to discuss the fascinating documentary they assembled.
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John Betancourt: Let’s talk about how each of you were introduced to this case.  

Allison Berkley: I would say we both grew up having a knowledge of the Hare Krishna, seeing them in the airport, seeing them sort of in cities and we sort of always, you know, kind of wondered more about them. And in 2020, we started to kind of dig around more into the philosophy and the religion and the movement and kind of, sort of, saw this, you know, sort of very interesting American story. And that's sort of where we began and started to kind of call people from this story and dig into the story. And kind of it's been about a three-year journey of making this film and learning more and more and finding more and more participants as we go.

Joseph Freed: Just that as we did our research… this is the kind of story that continually surprises you. And I think, you know, as I grew up, I can tell you, that I'm sure my mother would have been like, “Oh, those weirdos at the airport.” And then as an adult to go back and begin to read about it, well, as you begin to read you very quickly discover the story of New Vrindaban, and Kirtananda and all of the controversy surrounding that story. But then you take another step, and you learn about Prabhupada, the founder. And that whole story set against 60s America and into the 70s. And it just continually amazed me how it became more and more of an epic story, not just about this one commune in West Virginia, but epic American story of this movement, and then an idea and how an idea gets corrupted.

John Betancourt: What inspired you two to want to bring this to the masses?

Joseph Freed: Well, of course, at first, when you hear a good compelling story, as storytellers, you just get excited about a compelling story. But I think it was because there was a larger story to be told. Yes, we could tell the story of New Vrindaban, and Kirtanananda, and all the twists and turns inherent in that story about power and about murder and about corruption. But to tell the larger story of how a larger idea can be corrupted and then also can that idea endure beyond the corruption once it took on that kind of larger scope, it became very interesting. In addition to the epic nature of the story, there is the personal story of the individuals because in many ways, this is a family story, the story of what happened to some families that were caught up in the darkest chapters of this movement’s story. Whether that's Bhima sharing his story, Bhima is Charles St. Denis is son, and also Christina and Prima, who tell, you know their part of the story. So, in addition to the epic larger theme to be able to tell those deeply personal stories, which could humanize it, was really appealing to us. And you see, and watching the documentary, Bhima’s story, in many ways, become sort of not only a heart of the story, but a reflection of that idea of, of an idea corrupted and what happens when you come out the other side?

John Betancourt: What kind of challenges went into creating this stunning documentary?

Allison Berkley: Listen, our goal was always to feel very truthful, very factual, be able to give people the opportunity to say what they wanted to say. And to sort of also make sure that the context of how the movement began. And the intentions of the movement and of its original founder, are very clear. And I think that's sometimes a challenge with a story this big and long, and, you know, 50 years, to sort of, really make sure that the setup felt accurate, to understand how hard it was for those involved, what they lost. So, it was challenging in the sense to catch all of that and to feel as though you told the story correctly. So, it just took us a long time to find all the participants, and make sure their stories tied into the foundation.

Joseph Freed: Right. Listen, this was a three-year journey. And part of that was in the beginning, taking the time necessary to communicate to potential interview subjects. What it was we were trying to accomplish, because certainly there are people within the movement who would say, “that New Vrindaban story. Is that all you're going to do? And we wanted to make it clear. Yes, we were very upfront, we are telling that story. As you can tell, we asked the questions. But in addition, that we were going to put it in the larger context, because truly you can only understand corruption, if you know what is the idea that was corrupted. You know, and that was something, you know, we knew Hare Krishna, we did not know Prabhupada when our journey began. So, to discover who that man was, what his message was, was also a very interesting part of the story. So, we wanted to represent that. And by the way, to their credit. They didn't shut the door on us. So, which is what allowed us to help tell the larger story because obviously, that material of Prabhupada from the early days, that's footage from their archive, and all those photos taken on the commune, that's from their archive. So as one of their spokespeople says in the last episode, they're not going to deny anything. Right? They're not going to try to shut that door. To their credit, they said, okay, they just wanted to understand that we were going to tell some of the larger story. And then they cooperated with us. So, I think that was we were impressed with, that they did that.

John Betancourt: What kind of challenges came forth regarding telling the story of some of the more unsavory stuff that went on at New Vrindaban?

Allison Berkley: We just wanted to make sure that the people who were sharing these parts of their life, especially Bhima, felt ready, felt honest, felt like this would do good for him not bad, we weren't trying to re-traumatize anyone. We wanted… you know, we've heard a lot from many of the documentaries we've done in our career, to talk about it helps you get through it. And so, I think we just really wanted to make sure our intention for Prema, Christina, Bhima people who really suffered a lot in this time period, felt they could share that, wanted to share that, and felt they were ready to share that. Something we needed, was to be able to tell someone's story, and be trusted to do that. that was very important to us. And it takes time and trust, and sort of, that was that to me was more of a challenge than anything because we wanted to properly relay their experiences.

Joseph Freed: And, frankly, to empower them to tell their story. Because stylistically, obviously, there's no there's no omniscient narrator in this documentary. The stories are told in the voices of the people who lived this story. So, to put them in a place where they felt safe, telling those stories.

John Betancourt: What did this journey teach each of you?

Joseph Freed: Well, I really, there's two things that I really, I connect with about this. One is just this classic theme, that any idea, no matter how pure it may seem, in the beginning, can be led astray because of the foibles of being a human, right? That anyone can be susceptible to the lure of power, and so that we all just have to be ever vigilant. I think it's a reminder of that, that these patterns keep repeating for a reason, because, you know, humans are so susceptible to that. And then also, I just was very touched, by Bhima’s story, just learning on a personal level, how someone can come through such a traumatic experience, and then where they end up on the other side, and how they end up there, can be very illuminating.

Allison Berkley: I think just the resilience of humans, with some of our participants. I was impressed by.

Joseph Freed: I'm impressed by all of their honesty as well.

John Betancourt: Why do you think now is the right time to bring this story to bear?

Allison Berkley: I kind of keep going back to sort of, some of the people who -- Bhima, Christina, Prema, who felt like they hadn't had their moment to tell their story and resolving those parts of their lives. So that's kind of really what stood out to me when we first started looking into it. Was that opportunity for them.

Joseph Freed: Well, it is interesting in terms of timing, because the second generation that was born into the movement, those who are survivors of trauma, were at a place where obviously they were ready, on their own for their own reasons, their own emotional reasons they were ready to share. Bhima was ready to share. And for the first generation it's a story that has never been told, the bits and pieces of this story had been told and certainly you can read about it, and it was in the news media. But I think to tell it, in this form, with storytellers on all sides of the story, in the movement or out of the movement… it's also of a certain age where you have to capture all of these folks who are older now, if you get my meaning, you know, that generation now is… we've lost some of them already. Many of those gurus have passed on. So, to memorialize the stories while we still have access to the storytellers it makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense.

John Betancourt: What do you hope audiences take away from this series?

Allison Berkley: I always liked Wes Falls’ line when he sort of talks about how this was full of hope. And I think when you get to the ending, we could have just ended on a down and we tried to end where people were really at, which was still very hopeful. So, I hope that for the genre that this is put into that, you know, it has an unexpected outcome at the end, you know?

Joseph Freed: I'm right there with Allison, because the idea of the resilient, first the resiliency, that, especially in Bhima’s story, that no matter what happens, that you can come out the other side, and you can rediscover some sort of inner meaning. And not, and I don't mean that is necessarily exclusive to this Hare Krishna movement, but that anybody who goes through trauma can look at this story and see how you can come out the other side and start a new chapter. And then, also, I just think it's, you know, that cautionary tale about the lure of power. And what can happen when someone has too much power over other people.

John Betancourt: What are you each most proud of when it comes to this documentary.

Allison Berkley: I think the access I'm really proud of, I think we really covered a very large scope, which you could have chosen not to. I think a lot of the Bhima storyline. And a lot of the philosophy and sort of, you know, I think there's… it's a very wise group, there's a lot of wisdom in what they were after. And I think you get a lot of that throughout. And I think the ending feels different. And I really like that. You'd see your character, a lot of your characters kind of get to the end and sort of see where they are now. Yeah, I think that's those are mine.

Joseph Freed: I would say I'm, I'm proud of the fact that we gave those who lived through this story, especially the trauma survivors, we empower them to tell their story the way they wanted to tell it. And that we were also able to get all of the voices so that you could have this story from every side. So, inside the movement, law enforcement in Moundsville, so that there could be this definitive version of this story with legitimately the storytellers who actually lived through it.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity. ‘Krishnas: Gurus. Karma. Murder.’ is streaming now on Peacock.

Sarah Kambe Holland is an accomplished actor and writer and director, and her latest feature, Egghead & Twinkie, is screening at the Austin Film Festival this year. And we here at NTG had the distinct honor of sitting down with Sarah, to discuss this important film and its construction.

John Betancourt: Let’s start, what got you into writing and directing in the first place. 

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, man, I think I started off wanting to be a writer, like a novelist. I was that weird kid in middle school that was writing a book when I was like 12 years old, admittedly, not a very good book. But I think the interest was there from an early age to tell stories. And then I got into theater in high school and fell in love with acting and then film kind of stood out to me, as like the perfect medium to kind of fuse those two passions together, the love of story and the love of acting.

John Betancourt: Now what movie was it that made it click that this was where you were supposed to be?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, man, I don't know if it was even one film. I think it was a number of films. I really loved feel good films growing up. And I think that that comes across in Egghead & Twinkie. So, one movie that I still love as an adult, and I quote all the time is School of Rock. That that would be up there.

John Betancourt: What inspired you to give life to these dynamic characters?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, wow. Yeah, I love both of them. Both Egghead and Twinkie, I view them as like my children in a way, especially since I've been with them for so long. Because I originally wrote Egghead & Twinkie as a short when I was 19. And then we made the short when I was 21, and then moved on to make the feature. So, I guess originally, what inspired me to bring them to life was just a love for both characters. I think I have a lot in common with both of them actually. Twinkie maybe more, obviously. And that, you know, I grew up queer and mixed Asian. And that's, you know, focal points of Twinkie’s identity. But I'd say Egghead as well, and that I'm definitely a nerd and an over planner, and I get anxious when things don't go the way that I wanted them to. So yeah, I think that there's parts of me and in both of them. And it's really been a pleasure to kind of develop those characters over the years, as we've transitioned from the short to the full-length feature.

John Betancourt: Let’s talk about Egghead and Twinkie’s film journey, what motivated you to move beyond the short?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Yeah, people often asked me if we made the short as a proof of concept for the feature, like with that already in mind. And that was not the intent, I was not thinking that far ahead at all. So, I made that short as a standalone short. And it was more so something that happened almost when we were in post and cutting it all together. I was like, “Oh wow, I just I really love these characters. And I love watching them.” And I started wondering, you know, what would happen next, basically, after the events of the short, so it all happened pretty organically. And, the short ends with them, with Twinkie saying, “Oh, I want to get away from my parents. And, you know, we should, you know, run away together kind of, or go somewhere.” That's why it kind of led itself very organically into then turning it into a road trip movie.

John Betancourt: What kinds of challenges, if any, came about from putting together a feature length story for these characters?

Sarah Kambe Holland: If there were any? (Laughs) There's so many so many challenges. You know, I really didn't make things easy for myself, because people always say, “Oh, you know, when you make your first feature, and you have no money, you should be smart and write a script about two people in a room that just talk the whole movie.” But that's not what happened when I thought about, you know what Egghead and Twinkie would do next and where they would go. It was so obvious to me; it should be a road movie. I love road movies. Little Miss Sunshine is one of my favorites. So, I don't know, it was something I immediately had a passion for. And I didn't want to hold myself back. So, I thought let me write this script. And then I'll figure it out later. And that did end up kind of biting me sometimes where I would come across a scene and be like, “Oh my God, how are we going to do this, especially for such a small budget, and with a really young team as well.” But I really think everyone was so gung-ho about wanting to make this and make it the best it could be. So, we were like, “we'll figure it out,” and that’s what it's been every step of the way has been trial and error, trial by fire, and figuring it out.

John Betancourt: What went into the decision to create a story that tackles so much?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, wow, um, I think for me, you know, a lot of the original inspiration for Egghead and Twinkie came from a frustration and a lack of representation for people like me. And I think when I came out myself, to my own parents, it struck me that, you know, even though coming out can be a really difficult situation, I do think that there are a lot of things about it that can be joyful, or it can be kind of funny when you look back on it. So, you know, that was kind of the original idea was I wanted to make a more uplifting, comedic film about coming out. And I think from that, you know, I put a lot of care into the representation, because there's just such a lack of it out there in the world, I felt like I had a certain responsibility to do it right with the character of Twinkie, especially being a queer Asian character. So I think that that's where a lot of the nuance in the layers comes from is just the care that was put into it, not just by me, but by everybody that worked on the project, and especially my two lead actors, Sabrina Jie-A-Fa who plays Twinkie and Lewis Tomeo who plays Egghead, I think they both understood the gravity and the importance of the story, even though it is like a fun filled happy story. So, I'm really grateful to have found both of them.

John Betancourt: So, with that in mind, what kind of then did you feel upon yourself to get all of that right?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, a lot of pressure. And lot of it coming from myself, you know? I think in a lot of ways, this is the movie that I made for my younger self. So, with that comes, you know, pressure to do it right, to do it justice, because I knew there was an audience out there of people like me, who felt the same way that were looking for a story like this. But at the same time, I don't think it really felt like pressure in a way that was like, stifling or in a way that was detrimental. I think it was more something that pushed me along and motivated me during the really hard times. Because you know, making an indie film for no money is just, you know, obstacle after obstacle. And I think in those moments, you know, especially when the COVID pandemic hit, and we kind of had to pivot on everything. I think in those moments, it really helped me to have that to hold on to and know how important this was not just for me, but for other people. And I was like, “Okay, Sarah, you can figure this out, you know, try again, tomorrow.” And yeah, in a way, I am really grateful to have that personal tie in, because I think that it really helped with getting through those tougher times.

John Betancourt This is… an important story, since there aren’t a lot of movies about coming out, and there are obviously so many layers to this story as well. So, with that in mind, what is the biggest thing you want people to take away from this movie?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, I like that question. I hope that people will come out of the movie theater feeling uplifted and optimistic and wanting to call their best friend. I mean, I really think if we can put a smile on people's faces, especially right now, and there's so much darkness in the world. I really think that that's… that's the hope. And the goal is that people will want to come see it with their friends and have a good time.

John Betancourt: Now, keeping meaning in mind, this is a story that people are going to turn to, and connect with and be a beacon. What does it mean to you to have assembled a story that is going to help guide people.

Sarah Kambe Holland: Thank you. I think it's something that I've just been blown away by as we've been doing our… our festival circuit, because it's… it's such a strange thing with film because it's so personal and you put so much of yourself into it. And it's you know, just you in an editing room for months and months and you're watching the same cut over and over again and you're asking yourself, “are these jokes even still funny?” And then there's that terrifying moment where you get to finally share it with the public and other people get to receive what you created. And yeah, I think I've just been so touched by the responses that I've had from people from all walks of life, not just young people, and not just queer people, but older folks and people that I never thought would relate to a movie like this. So, I guess it's been surprising in the best way. And I'm just really grateful to everyone that's come out to see it and has been touched by it.

John Betancourt: What does it mean to you, to know this is about to be seen and embraced by so many?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, I'm really excited. I'm really… we've played a lot of festivals leading up to this point, but this is our Texas premiere. And I grew up in Austin, and I live here now. So, I'm local. So, I don't know… it's just… I… I'm so excited. I've asked some of my high school teachers to come. So, you know, it's always fun when people come that knew you when you were like 14 years old and very embarrassing. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it, especially to screen at where I grew up, I think it’s just, I didn't know if this would ever happen. Because when I was 14, I actually submitted to the Austin Film Festival with a really, really, really terrible short film. And I got rejected back then. So, I think this is like the ultimate delayed gratification.

John Betancourt: What did you love the most about putting together what is clearly a passion project.

Sarah Kambe Holland: I think for me, it was seeing all of these young people come together to make this thing happen. Because it all started with just an idea. And it grew and it grew. And I think that that was the most exciting thing was being on set and seeing 30-40pPeople all come together to film, sometimes it would be at like one in the morning, because we'd be doing an overnighter, and everybody was just chugging coffee and Red Bull. I don't know, I think there's something so incredible about film as a collaborative art and seeing everyone come together to make it happen.

John Betancourt: What are you most proud of when it comes this project?

Sarah Kambe Holland: I think what I just said, just… just… I'm so I'm so proud of everyone that worked on it. Because it's not just my film, I could not… there's no way I could have done this by myself. Film is such a team sport. And I think that that's what I'm most proud of is that everyone came together to make it happen and that we stuck with it through the COVID pandemic and all the obstacles that that created.

John Betancourt: So, now I have to ask since you mentioned COVID playing a role here, how long was the shoot for this?

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, you don't want to know… too long. So, because of COVID. And because we were working with a largely volunteer crew, we were coordinating around everyone's schedules and around other gigs that people were doing. So, we ended up filming in four different phases over the course of 2020 and 2021. And in total, we shot for over 40 days. Four, zero. So, it was a… it was a marathon for sure.

John Betancourt: Oh, this was some George Romero style guerilla filmmaking!

Sarah Kambe Holland: Sometimes it was yeah, sometimes it was me and like five people on the side of the road with a camera and just hoping the police wouldn't show up. But most of the time we did get permits. I want to cover myself for my producer. (Laughs)

John Betancourt: That’s okay, I can edit that part out. (Laughter from both Sarah and John) So, last question I have for you today. What’s next for the film after Austin?

Sarah Kambe Holland: After Austin, we're, we're working on getting distribution to hopefully release it publicly in 2024. And we're making moves with that. But we do still have some festival screenings lined up through the end of this year. So, I think the immediate one we're going to after Austin is the San Diego Asian American Film Festival out in California. And then we have another Fest in Spain that same month. So, it's yeah, we're still making the rounds.

John Betancourt: Spain though, that's pretty cool.

Sarah Kambe Holland: Oh, yeah, we're excited. And my producer is actually going to be in Spain at the same time. So, she's actually going to be able to attend. So that'll be cool.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity, to see ‘Egghead & Twinkie’ at the Austin Film Festival, please visit their website.

Laya DeLeon Hayes is a rising star in the industry, that has been popping left and right in amazing projects, such as The Angry Black Black Girl and her Monster and The Equalizer. James Charles Leary is a highly decorated actor that is of course, best known as Clem from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and currently both of these actors are part of the Audible Original, Slayers: A Buffyverse Story, and we here at NTG had the distinct honor of sitting down with both of these actors to discuss James’ return to the Buffyverse as Clem, and Laya’s introduction to it as Indira.
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John Betancourt: What was it that attracted both of you to this project?

Laya DeLeon Hayes: Um, well, I mean, one, it was really an email I got in my inbox one random day in February. And I was very lucky that one of the Co-directors, Kc Wayland, had seen me on another project and wanted me for this one. But I really had no idea what this project was going to entail. I didn't know too much about the Buffyverse. Of course, I was aware of the show and of the phenomenon that it is, but not to the extent of what it truly was, I think, of course, it was a little before my time. So, I was very nervous even stepping into this, like, just how much knowledge I was supposed to have on the show. And I wanted to have on the show. And coming into something as the newcomer, these cast members have known each other for over two decades now.

And I wanted to be sure that I was I was aligned with the tone and also understood the cast, so it was nerve wracking at first, but that first meeting I had with Amber (Benson), Christopher (Golden) and Kc, all those nerves immediately went away, they made the environment super comfortable and super safe for me from the very beginning. And as well, they wrote a character that one I could relate to, and that was so much fun to play. Like I was just excited, really to be able to play Indira. She was the biggest attraction towards this project. And it was just a cherry on top to like, start on my first day in the recording booth. First Meet James (Marsters) and then James (Charles Leary) and then KC, and Christopher in person. And for them to be just as lovely in person as well. It really did make this experience so magical. And I mean, we only had a short time of recording. But I can tell you right now like if there's opportunity to do even more episodes like I'm so down because they made the environment so special for me.

John Betancourt: James, what about you?

James Charles Leary: Money.

John Betancourt: Okay. That’s fair. (Laughter from all.)

James Charles Leary. The money was good. No, this, I've said it before this little silly character changed my life. When I first moved to Los Angeles, in the late 90s, I had five shows I wanted to be on. Buffy was one of those shows. And because I was a huge fan, I actually wrote a spec episode of for like, what happens after season two, just on my own. So, I was a huge fan of the show. And it was one of the shows I wanted to work on. And it's the only show I did work on. So, getting one getting to work on a show that you love was huge. And then here I am. Twenty-two years later, still being a part of this phenomenon. I never could have imagined in my wildest dreams. So, I've known Christopher Golden and Amber Benson for a long, long time. And when they called and we're like, “Hey, we're thinking about—“ YES! “Well, you know—" YES! So, yeah, and it's a character I love. It's mostly me. So, yeah, it was and then to get to work with everyone and people I hadn't actually worked with before and to meet new people like Laya and just to get to play and have fun. It's… it's been such a gift and something I never thought, you know, in my life would continue. So, yeah, if I talk more, I'll cry.

John Betancourt: Okay, then we will move on. Because then I’ll lose it, and I’m an ugly crier. So, with that in mind, let’s talk about the passion and joy that I’ve noticed when it comes to this project. Because there is so much of that in the show and from your cohorts, what did you both enjoy so much about working on this story that brought forth that passion?

James Charles Leary: Sure, again, I was such a huge fan of the show. So, getting to work with everyone. And I can't talk too much about it. But I will say in the ensuing years, we became like this weird circus family, like in doing cons. And that grew out of where we came from. But I've been all over the world with some of these people. And it's like, “Wait, I've done what”? So, it's just, it is like this weird show business family. And the fact that we're still doing this, and I still am, in a booth with people like Juliet (Landau) and Emma (Caulfield Ford) and Charisma (Carpenter), and I'm watching them. And it's hard to say my line because I am like, so enthralled by what they're doing, like watching Emma work and Juliet, and Charisma is like, “Holy… oh, wait, I have a line! Oh, okay.” So that's been the best part for me is just continuing to watch talented people who are dedicated, continue to work.

Laya DeLeon Hayes: I agree with James’ statement on that, like--

James Charles Leary: Follow that! (Laughter from all)

Laya DeLeon Hayes: But it really was so special to, again, like, coming from not knowing too much about… I didn't really know anyone before starting, of course, but you can just see that, like, they had so much, and they have so much love and passion for the show that it really is infectious. And I felt so lucky just to be welcomed into that, one. But two you kind of sit around the booth, and you watch these people who've played these characters for a long time, but also who are still open in playing and trying things out, and challenging themselves, challenging the other actor next to them at the same time. It was, it wasn't just like the biggest joy to be able to work with them and be able to witness what they were able to do. But I think the things that I've taken away from it and learned from simply witnessing them work has been even more of a gift. It was truly a magical five days that like I got to spend with them. And by the end of it, which is very rare and does not happen on many sets or in recording booths, when you're able to bond with your classmates and feel like a true family, that it's hard to leave them by the end of it. That's when you know, like you've built, and you've created and done something very special. And with Slayers It was exactly that. So yeah, I think what you're seeing is what you're getting this is no like act that any of them are putting on either. Like it truly was such a special and beautiful thing to be a part of. And I'm just hoping that it translates via audio.

John Betancourt: Now we don’t want to spoil anything, but I would love to know what you’re each most excited for audiences to experience when they settle in to listen.

Laya DeLeon Hayes: I'm really excited… I'm excited for new members of like the fandom to experience this as well. Maybe once you were in my position who didn't know too much about Buffy. I'm excited for them to listen to it and like be completely invigorated by this new world. And on top of that, I loved playing Indira like, again, you don't get many young female characters that are like this. I'm really excited for people to see the female representation we have in this Audible show. It was really special one, to read just in the scripts. Like Cordelia Chase, like she's like a hero now. So, I think people are, I really, I think people really going to gravitate towards that because I certainly did. So yeah, it really is just like a thrilling and joyful but also, it's a journey and a ride that has a lot of heart. And in that way, I think people are really going to relate to it as well.

John Betancourt: James, what about you?

James Charles Leary: All Clem, all the time. (Laughter from All)

John Betancourt: So, we need a Clem spin-off is what I am hearing.

James Charles Leary: Coming in 2024! I have to really backup what Laya said, in just, I really hope fans, old and new, take hold of the heart. There's so much heart in this, Amber and Chris put everything into this. And from Kc Wayland, and our entire production staff and all the performers, every actor, even people I didn't meet who did all the other voices, everyone puts so much into this. And we really did truly put our hearts into this. And I hope that that conveys, and that audiences will connect to that in a way that you don't necessarily always get to connect, when you see something visually, it's just in your ears, and then your mind fills in the rest. So, I really hope that that everyone loves it. Because we loved doing it. It was such a pleasure. It was one of the best weeks I've had in a long time. And I loved every second of it. And I hope other people do as well.

John Betancourt: Last question I have for both of you today, what are each most proud of when it comes to work on this project?

James Charles Leary: Everything. No. You know, I don't even know. I think, kind of I don't even know how to be proud of this because I don't… I don't think of it this way, is that I wasn't supposed to be a recurring character. I should have never been here. Like, I shouldn't be here. And I am… (James trails off as tears well up in his eyes.) I’m sorry… I… I’m so thankful. And it’s been a crazy ride. So… that’s it.

Laya DeLeon Hayes: Well, just to speak to James. That's just how you know again, like, what they've been able to do is something so special and so rare. Like truly the one thing I'm most proud of is just every single cast member and crew member on this project. Like I said it once I'll say it again, this does not happen often. It is a rarity. And when you find people who are one, so lovely and just as talented as they are lovely, but who care about what they do so much. You really have to cherish and treasure that. And, and that's something to be proud of. And that's something that I will take with me for the rest of my career.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

Emma Caulfield Ford has enjoyed quite the amazing career as an actor, for she has appeared in countless iconic franchises over the years, such as Fear the Walking Dead, and she’s even taken part in the Marvel Cinematic Universe through her work in WandaVision. But she is of course, best known for her work in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where she played the character Anya and well… it just so happens that Emma has returned to the franchise courtesy of the new Audible Original, Slayers: A Buffyverse Story, and we had the distinct honor of sitting down with Emma to discuss her return to the world of Buffy.

John Betancourt: What attracted you to take part in this project?

Emma Caulfield Ford: Amber (Benson), really. Yeah, Amber is a dear friend of mine. I, I just love her. She has one of those amazing gifts that came from working on the show all those years ago. You know, she's, she's such a fun writer, and she's so smart. And she has such a great take on, on just keeping things cohesive, and the overall arcs and the messages. She's just you know, she's… she's just great. She was like, “So, I have this project. And so, how do you feel about returning to this world? And I was like, “Nope, no, thanks. No interest, she died.” And I asked to be killed off. So, I'm quite happy. I'm fine. You know, there were just… there was a lot of great memories. And there was so much that was so great about that time, back in the day, and then there were there were, you know, scars that are like, oof, I don't… like I'm cool. Like, I don't need to go back.

Then she talked about a little more. And it didn't, it really didn't take much. And I was like, “I'll do it. I'll do it for you. I'm gonna do it.” I meant it and I’m like, “If this was anybody else coming to me do it. I would never touch this with a 10-foot pole. But I trust you and I love you. And so, let's go.” And I think a year passed or something. I was like, “Is this ever gonna happen?” She's like, “It is, it is, it is… it's just a process. I'm like, “Cool, let me know, whatever.” And then, you know, it happened. And it was incredibly fun. I mean, I can't say that enough. Like it's the best. One of the best personal experiences -- professional experiences, and personal experiences I've had. It was great.

John Betancourt: I heard a lot of passion in your voice and the voices of the rest of the cast, as this story played out, and I’m curious what you enjoyed the most about working on this, that helped to bring out such passion?

Emma Caulfield Ford: Well, I love all the people in that room, first of all, and I never got to work with Juliet (Landau). And I said this to her, and I mean it completely, like kind of 100% sincere, being in the room with her while she's doing Drusilla, it’s like, “I pound for pound put you in a room with Meryl Streep. Any day.” Like I am -- anybody who knows me knows that I like I have a hero worship situation with Meryl Streep. I have since I was a child. I'm sure most actors do. You know, but I think I'm an alien in that way. But it was like, “No, dude. You're as good as Meryl Streep.” Like what the… I can’t swear, probably, but you know, it was it was thrilling. It was an absolute joy. It left me like just awestruck. I was like. “I'm not worthy to be in the same space with you. Oh my god, you're so good.” Also, working with James (Marsters), like I just love James. He's so fun to watch. He's so fun to work with.

It's like great. I get to be back in the room with James too. Like this is really interesting. Like Charisma (Carptenter)… too. There was just a lot there that was really tantalizing. And I just realized how much I like psychotically love doing voiceover. I was like, “I've had so much fun in this booth. It's so liberating to not have to worry about your face.” (Laughs) Like, no one cares what they look like right now. I don't have I don't have to like; I mean, I personally care. Like, I don't show up looking like garbage. And I try not to. But you know, it's just a, it's a whole other skill set. That was just so fun and challenging for me.

John Betancourt: Now, without spoiling anything, what are you most excited for audiences to experience with this story?

Emma Caulfield Ford: For me personally, like, as far as, as being in the Anya sphere, again, I suppose the variations of Anya? I did, I did a few voices. I’m a few characters. And getting them all together at the same time and, and recording all of those back like, fluidly, like we didn't break. Some it was like, go jump from that one to that one to that one. Back to that one. You know, for pages and pages. It was like running a race. It was very, very fun. So, when people obviously understand what I'm talking about when they're hearing it, they’ll be like, “Oh, okay!” And know that, you know, this was all happening in real time. Like we didn't break, there was no, like, do this character. Come back. Do these lines, come back. You know, they were… it just all was all done concurrently. So, it was It was exhilarating. Hopefully, it's fun for people. I haven't heard it. But damn, it was fun, for me.
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John Betancourt: Last question I have for you today, what are you most proud of when it comes to your work on this project?

Emma Caulfield Ford: It's really just being a part of the collective awesomeness that is this group of people. It's what I'm most proud of. It's not something that for me, it's not like, “I'm proud of this particular moment. And this thing that I'm so proud of…” no, it's like, I'm just proud of the group. You know? It was just incredibly fun. It was just magical. I really, really hope we get to do that again. Really. As soon as possible!

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

Larnell Stovall is an accomplished stunt coordinator, stuntman, and fight coordinator and currently, he serves as the fight coordinator for the Peacock series, The Continental: From the World of John Wick, and we here at NTG the distinct honor of sitting down with Larnell to discuss his incredible work in this series.
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John Betancourt: How did you get into fight coordination/stunts?

Larnell Stovall: Okay. Let's see if I can do the cliff note version. Okay, I saw a movie by the name of Blade, okay? I was in a martial arts competition at the time. Blade basically made me realize that I could see us stunt guys too, because I remember seeing a few Black guys fighting Wesley Snipes. And I was like, “Oh, I want to do that.” And students were like, “You want to be Wesley Snipes? Like, no, I want to be the guy he's fighting. So needless to say, I stayed after the credits, looked up the stunt coordinator and the fight choreographer and went home and got on my AOL dial up. And I reached out, you know, and a guy by the name of Chuck Jeffries responded. From back there, we exchanged emails back and forth, sent him a VHS tape of me in competition. He said I had a lot of potential and then not too long, shortly after that, I was on a Greyhound bus to LA to try to pursue stunts. The fight coordinating, fight choreography thing that came later because there weren't a lot of African Americans that could double to keep steady work. So, I kind of leaned back into my kata days of creating my own fight scenes and the did the whole independent thing, shorts, test shoots, small budget films, low budget films to build up credits and footage, and kept working and making my way around.

John Betancourt: What is that you love about doing stunts and action in this vein?

Larnell Stovall: Well, it's funny you say that, because, um, you know, I used to love doing stunts, but I feel like my love now has really shifted into action design, you know, I appreciate what the physical body can do. And I am so amazed at looking at people day in and day out, stick to a diet, stick to a certain amount of training. I used to be there I used to be into the gymnastics in the evenings, running in the daytime, martial arts in the afternoon. Eating three, four small meals a day. Because you never knew if the ability to feed yourself or get your next job might be determined by when you walk in. And first thing they say is take your shirt off. And, and it may have nothing to do with your skill. None of it. You know, so you always had to be ready as much as you can. But yeah, look, I admire what stunt people are doing, stunts have increased because the audience demands more nowadays, concern and action. So, I'm very amazed by the level of talent that's out there.

John Betancourt: Since you’re shifting into fight coordination, what kind of prep work goes into putting together fights and action and stunts that are this ambitious?

Larnell Stovall: Okay, well, it starts with the script. But when you don't have a script, I would say for me, research, watch foreign films, play video games, I'm still into comic books, I'm still into manga, I'm still into anime, I'm always thinking, “Oh, wow, that would be cool. That could be different or that look at that camera angle and look at this character design or development”. So, I feel like you know, if you do that, then by the time you get a project and have a script, you can have maybe fresh ideas, you know, and maybe not just recycling or rehashing the same things over and over. So that way people feel like, “Oh, my God, I would have never thought of that.” And that's your job, you know.

John Betancourt: What kinds of challenges did you run into in putting together the breathtaking fights here?

Larnell Stovall: I will say the ambition was based off the schedule. Because, you know, we're coming from the universe that was done based off of films. So, the audience, like I've mentioned to some people before, you have to understand what the audience expectations are these days, like John Wick Four just got released this year. We're the first season of The Continental. So technically, by audience's expectations, they will want action that they just saw in John Wick Four in our first season, when technically we are considered John Wick One, if that makes sense. Because they have room to grow. They have room for the action to design to increase. They have room for the sets to get bigger, action to get bigger, but we're coming from behind (John Wick) four. So, we kept that in mind by saying hey, look, we know where we are. We know the schedule we have. Let's just be as creative, as brutal, as visceral as possible within the timeframe that we're allotted, and hopefully, the audience embraces us and understands that, hey, we're the New Kids on the Block. And we this is how we're starting out. But we will give you remnants of that world. And hopefully you feel like it's a fresh take.

John Betancourt: What does it mean to you to be part of this iconic franchise now?

Larnell Stovall: Well, it's intimidating, but I will say, I'm glad to be a part of the universe. And it's an honor. I hope, if there is a season two that, you know, we get a chance to go back and be bigger and better. And, you know, take every valuable lesson we've learned from season one to season two. But for me, I look at it as being on the outside looking in at the John Wick world, and finally, truly, being a part of it. Even if it's a branch off and an extension. It's like a badge, you know, where I'm glad to carry that badge. But within that I'm saying, it's teamwork. And I couldn't have done this without a great team behind me, the US team, the Budapest team. So, the only thing I can say is hopefully, if I'm allowed to lead the ship again, we come back with even more fresh ideas so I can keep wearing that badge proudly.

John Betancourt: What it means to have your complete body of work here on display?

Larnell Stovall: Oh, yeah, this week, if it's okay to discuss that we are coming up on the finale, this week, I know what the finale is going to display, I know what the audience is going to see. It's been exciting, because for those that felt like we could have had more action, or the action could have been longer. I feel like a lot of that will be solved in this final episode. So, I'm just grateful people decided to stay with us. Stick with it, allow it to grow. And let us hopefully give you a payoff, because to me, it's all about that last 15-20 minutes, that determines if something was worth your time, if you think about it, when you watch a movie or you watch a series, you're going to forget the first 6,7, 8 episodes, but when you get to episode 12 or something, they got to wrap it up in that last 20 minutes, that may determine your rating, your score, your loyalty, your decision to move into the next season. So, we kept all that in mind and decided to keep elevating each fight to make sure that it ended with a bang versus, you blow your wad, so to speak, in the beginning, you know, so we wanted to keep track of that. And yeah, I really hope the audience walks away with feeling like it was worth their time.

John Betancourt: What you most proud of when it comes to your work on this show?

Larnell Stovall: I'm most proud of the actors. Here's why. When you're thrown into this universe, you have people who have never done a fight scene before, ever. And then they're stepping into this universe on a TV schedule, having to compete with the monster that is the Wick universe, where, you know, it's been said, and it's true, that some of the actors have months and months of rehearsals and training, to sometimes do something as simple as a two minute fight scene, we may have to do a minute and a half fight scene within four weeks of training. But the audience deserves and wants and expects the same result as if someone had to three months of training. So, I'm more proud of the actors, because there was a lot of pressure, a lot of challenges, a lot of obstacles to overcome, a lot of mental hurdles to get through as well. But each one of them stepped up, each one of them trusted me, you know, most of them call me coach at the end of the day, because you know, I try to get them through this, I try to do my best to allow them to be their character. But yet remember their foundation that they’re still fresh with. So that way when they incorporate the two, it looks so seamless on film, that you'll never be able to tell one of them, or many of them never did a fight scene in their life. So, I'm more proud of the final product and their efforts.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

Albert Hughes is a highly accomplished director that has worked across a multitude of genres, with a focus on action and adventure and currently, Albert serves as the Lead Director and as an Executive Producer of The Continental: From the World of John Wick on Peacock. And we here at NTG had the distinct honor of sitting down with Albert to discuss his work behind the camera for this ambitious show.
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John Betancourt: How did you get to be involved as an EP and Director of this John Wick project?

Albert Hughes: Well, it came to me through the film producers, Basil Iwanyk and Erica Lee. They wanted to do a Zoom and see if I'd be interested in it. And once they pitched me what it was about and how they were handling the schedule, and how they wanted it to be, filmmaker driven, I was like, “Okay, well, this sounds like fun. I've been doing too much serious stuff. And too many topical social commentary kind of projects.” And coming out of COVID and whatnot, I thought the audience wants to check out and have fun. I've had fun with those movies, along with the audience, like seeing all three of those films, that was before four came up. And maybe if I'm having fun, the audience will have fun too. And this kind of, it feels like a parallel universe, subculture of assassins, that is not quite letting in reality from the outside world. So that was a turn on.

John Betancourt: What is different about directing an action feature like this over anything else you’ve done in your career?

Albert Hughes: Well, more action, one, because the so-called action, I did in the past was more reality based. This is more kind of fantastical in camp and a good way, you know? And I think also, the most surprising thing was a freedom of not having to deal with reality, I didn't expect that this whole brain space would be empty and could take on other things now, which is having fun and being playful with characters, costumes, props, you know, cars, production design, dialogue, the whole gamut. Basically, it's like, it was wide open, you can throw anything wild at the John Wick world, and it will just eat it up at a rapid rate. So that was quite surprising because our first day of our very first day of shooting was the first Adjudicator scene where the guy is beating the other guy in the chair, her henchman. And that was purposely done because it was a scene, I was excited about, I was excited about that character, and both those characters. And also, her henchman was played by Kirk Ward, our showrunner and writer who is my partner in crime throughout the whole thing. So that was strange directing him, but it was also setting a tone for what the world will be. And when I saw that scene, on the first day I go, “Oh, this is gonna be a fun ride. Because I can't do this in other movies.” You know?

John Betancourt: What kind of prep work does a director do for a project this ambitious?

Albert Hughes: It's the same as I've done since I was 12 years old, although it's been honed, it's like, because I was trying, or told, I was going to be an artist by my mom, I’d draw everything when I was young. And I thought I was gonna be a comic book artist or an architect. So, as I got further into the professional side of things I would first draw the shots, and then shorthand describe them, and then transcribe that into a larger document. That's called a shot list. But it's not a typical shot list. It's talking to departments now, it's color coded. It's now shared with the departments real time live. And if the script is 120 pages, the shot list will be 185 pages. You know, I'm one of those guys that has a bad dreams about showing up without having my homework. So, I over prepared, I never realized that I over prepared until later in my career, because the crew and how you're making a film and prep, and production is built for dysfunction. It's built for dysfunctional directors, so they have everything ready. You know, and they go long hours, I don't go into overtime. I hate it. I think it's not needed. And I think it's very disrespectful to crews. So, if you prep, it's the same prep, I would have done for a movie, there's no difference if I did a TV show, I did one a few years ago called Good Lord Bird. It was exact same prep. One hour episode is the same prep as a two-hour movie. Just shorter. That's all.

John Betancourt: Now I hear a lot of passion in your voice when you talk about directing, what is it you love about directing?

Albert Hughes: Ooh, that's one… I've never in 32 years… I've never been asked that question. And it's actually a… it's a stunning question because I think it's more something to do with the, the expression of something and I don't know quite what to put my finger on it. I come from more of a visual side. My mother was a still, a water painter. My aunt is, my grandfather was, and I think I love putting together a series of images with sound and pictures, to convey a certain feeling and to see how you can move the audience one way or the other. It's something that Hitchcock was, was into. It's called “Pure Cinema.” And if you see an interview with him, he has a very, there's a very unique way he describes it and he actually used an example of himself. He shot himself as an old man, he said in a park, looking. That's picture one. Cuts to a woman holding a baby that's picture two. Cut back to the old man, he's smiling. That's picture three, right? One and three are the same shot.

He says, now take out the woman with the baby. And he smiles. It's all, “oh he's a kind old man.” Now let's take out that middle image and put in a woman sunbathing in a bikini. Now play man looks, woman in bikini, man smiles the exact same smile. Now you think he's a dirty old pervert. Okay? And that's, you know, it's called the… it's based on a Russian name. I forgot, like… the Kuleshov effect, I forgot what the name is exactly. But it's a series of images put together to convey a certain thought. And if you move one image and put another one in, how it conveys itself to the third image, and you know, following, and I thought that was the best description of why he gets off on filmmaking. You know, it's like, I love shooting, I have an editing system right behind me right now. I've been shooting since I was 12. I have cameras, and it's just something I can't describe. It's almost like someone who sews or makes a quilt that has some sense of accomplishing something you made, even though in my job, when I'm doing it professionally, I have to depend on hundreds of people.

John Betancourt: What does it mean to you to have this completed trilogy on display?

Albert Hughes: It's, it's a mixed feeling, because you know, it's like, after all that time, and we were finished a long time ago, now it's out in the world, like, you know, you have a come down, you're like, “Oh, God, like my body is finally catching up with me,” and saying you have to lay down and sleep longer. But I'm excited for everybody to see it. Because I think once they get the totality of everything. They'll understand one and two. And once you get three, you'll be all “Oh, okay, that's where all this was headed.” It doesn't. It's not traditional, which is what I love about it. It's not ten episodes, it's three feature length episodes, and the third one goes off the rails. It goes crazy. So, I'm interested. I'm interested to see what the reaction is to that. Because I think everyone knows you're building to something because obviously you see the relationship with Winston, older Winston, and older Charon, too, and that they run that hotel, so you know, some… some shit’s about to go down.

John Betancourt: What are you most proud of when it comes to this project?

Albert Hughes: I'm proud of the crew and the cast. Nothing that I did. I was just… I was so proud of what level they worked at, even these new newcomer actors who've done a couple projects, but just the kind of love and passion they had when they when they came and the Hungarian crew in particular, like just the ambition and fight and drive. I always say there's two types of people in this world or in this business. There are those who run away from fires. And there are those who run into fires. Well, that cast and that crew, that Hungarian crew in particular, they would smile running into the fire and I'm like, “Ohh, I've never seen this before.” So that's what I'm most proud of.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.