An Interview with Sy Montgomery, Adam Geiger, & Dr. Alex Schnell from ‘Secrets of the Octopus’

Dr. Alex Schnell enters the water in Lembeh Strait to find and observe the Coconut octopus (Amphioctopus marginatus). (National Geographic for Disney/Craig Parry)

Sy Montgomery is an author that has spent a great deal of her time writing about and studying the Octopus. Adam Geiger is a director/writer/producer/director of photography and Dr. Alex Schnell is a National Geographic Explorer, and the host of a series that ties all three of these individuals together, Secrets of the Octopus. A powerful documentary that is out now and to celebrate its release, and Earth Day, we sat down this trio to talk about the show and all things octopus.
 
John Betancourt: What it is about the octopus that has captivated all of you so much, to bring a series like this to life.
 
Dr. Alex Schnell: I think they offer a very beautiful balance between something that is so different from us. They have eight arms, a beak, blue blood, three hearts. But then we're starting to find these glimmers of similarity in a way that allows us to connect with them.
 
Adam Geiger: I think that what's most surprising about octopus is that when you look in the eyes of an octopus, when you're underwater and close to them, there is a presence looking back at you, there's so much more to them than so many other animals. And it just reminds us that they are, we’re part of… of a bigger world. And they're a fascinating, fascinating part of it.
 
Sy Montgomery: Well, when I started writing about octopus in 2011, even the title of the first book I had in mind gave people pause, because it's titled The Soul of an Octopus. How could an octopus have a soul? And the subtitle was A Surprising Exploration into the Wonder of Consciousness. And consciousness is one of those questions that some philosophers think we don't have it. But I can tell you after having been friends with just a small handful of octopuses, but having spent years knowing them, that if I have a soul, they have a soul. And this series, Secrets of the Octopus goes one step further than I was able to back in 2011. And it's answering so many of the questions that came to me, when I first began to know these animals.
 
John Betancourt: What have each of you learned about our world, spending so much time with these amazing animals?
 
Sy Montgomery: Well, I'm gonna quote Thales of Miletus, the pre-Socratic Greek philosopher, as one does. (Laughter from everyone) “The universe is alive, and has fire in it, and is full of gods, that the universe is far more alive, and adamant, and holy, then we can imagine, and that demands of us a reverence for all of life, and that we journey through this life on this gorgeous Earth with wonder, and love.”
 
Adam Geiger: What she said. (Laughter from everyone) Look, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think that for me, personally, the revelation over, you know, I was fascinated with octopus, which is what got us into this, this whole mess really. But over the course of the filming, and reviewing the footage, and having Alex's input and Sy’s input, and even Jim Cameron's, just understanding how intelligent and how much personality and how much of a being exists out there in the natural world that we have for so long felt we were above, was really, really humbling to know that this animal that you know, that is… we're not anywhere nearly close to it, you know, we're separated by 500 million years of evolution. And yet here is this intelligent animal that gives you pause; makes you understand where your where your places in the natural world.
 
Dr. Alex Schnell:  I think that, as humans, we're always drawn to animals that are most closely related to us. We feel empathy and compassion for the animals that look and behave in similar ways and then as you move across the evolutionary tree of life, we feel indifferent and maybe disconnected from those other species. And what I hope this series really brings, is that you can connect to an animal that is so alien. And I really believe that octopus are the ambassadors that are really allowing us to have respect and compassion for diverse critters. They don't have to look like that they don't have to behave like us. But they still deserve our respect. And you know, we shouldn't overlook all the critters that inhabit our planet that we share our planet with. And so, what I'm really hoping for is just this shift in perspective so that we can connect more to nature and all the animals out there, not just the big, very charismatic ones.
 
John Betancourt: What are you most looking forward to audiences experiencing, when they settle in to watch this show?
 
Adam Geiger: I think when the audience watches this, I'm hoping that Secrets of the Octopus makes them find a surprising connection to an animal that is so different to us. I think that's really one of the biggest goals is to create that empathy in that connection. And to demonstrate that this, this odd creature actually has a personality, it has a soul.
 
Dr. Alex Schnell: I think that what we offer in this series is we reveal a lot of secrets. Even all of us were really blown away by the new behaviors that we were seeing, even though I've worked with them for over a decade. You've (Sy) been watching them for years and years. And you've also been studying them since, you know, looking into them since 2011. And I think in terms of even though they're so different, the way that we can remove the barrier of otherness is to help the audience understand them more. And that'll help them connect with them more. And then the more we understand about nature, and all its critters, the more we want to love and protect it. And that's really the take home that I hope happens with the series.
 
Sy Montgomery: Oh, absolutely, what they said, and particularly right now, when there's so many divisions that are separating human beings, it's good to exercise those muscles of connection. And interestingly, in cultures around the world, the octopus, unsurprisingly, able to stretch those elastic arms out in all directions, is often used as a symbol of uniting diverse peoples. And this, this series, who knows may be able to help us do that really sacred important… thing.
 
John Betancourt: I’m noticing more and more, we are seeing nature documentaries focus on specific species of animals, and I’m curious why you all think now is the right time to make the Octopus a focus.
 
Dr. Alex Schnell: Well, I think we can say this is the golden age of octopus. And you know, maybe 10-15 years ago, people wouldn't have been as interested but there's been certain books like Sy’s book, the Netflix series My Octopus Teacher, that I think can pique the interest of our viewers, and we just want to learn more. And I think that when I first started working on an octopus 15 years ago, the reaction that I would often get is, “Ew, why!? They're so grotesque, and they're slimy, and you know, they're delicious. I love octopus, you know, what have they got to offer?” Whereas now, I think with the series and the intimate interactions and the behaviors and the storytelling, we are really offering a window into the octopus mind and also a different perspective. So, people are going to walk away seeing a completely different side of octopus and people are ready for that.
 
Adam Geiger: You know, only about 5% of octopus species have even been studied, and that's mostly in the laboratory, because they are notoriously difficult to study in the wild. What Secrets of the Octopus did was groundbreaking in putting scientists, authors, filmmakers in the field for extended periods of time to create that intimate portrait of, of these rather enigmatic animals. And I think that's going to really create a connection for the audience. And they're ready for it.
 
Sy Montgomery: Oh, I’d also like to call attention to all the different species that are featured in Secrets of the Octopus. From little, little, tiny coconut octopuses that actually walk into your hand when you extend it, to Scarlett who stretches out her arm, up to octopuses, like the Mimic, who can change in the blink of an eye from looking exactly like a lionfish to no, a poisonous flounder to wait, you know, I'm not completely, um, a bunch of sea snakes. They have so many amazing -- we are seeing octopuses trundling around on the sea floor like a weary commuter, dragging their suitcase. We are seeing a little tiny octopuses looking like algae just flowing along. We're seeing octopuses mate, we're seeing octopuses fight, we're seeing octopuses, working with other species to find their food. So that breadth of different species and different talents that octopus has, to which you went to literally the four corners of the Earth to get is something that has never been seen before.
 
John Betancourt; The last question I have for you is a bit more technical, but I think it's important .What can viewers do to get more involved in conservation efforts, since we are at a point where that is always a concern?
 
Sy Montgomery: Well, one thing, you can join Octonation, which is big octopus fan club, and they will you keep abreast of all things octopus, anything we can do to help our seas, such as use less plastic, use your vote, to vote for candidates in our political system who are going to protect our Earth and our seas. And there's a proposal right now to factory farm octopuses in the Canary Islands in Spain. And as I'm sure folks have heard about factory farming of land animals, it's wasteful, it causes a great deal of pollution. And it's extremely cruel to the animals that are being farmed. So, I would say, let's add our voices to folks that are trying to stop this project in the Canary Islands.
 
Adam Geiger: I just, I just think that as, as a citizen of, you know, of Earth as somebody on the spaceship, we have to do everything we can to try to keep the natural world alive, because ultimately, that's what will keep us alive. So, reducing the use of plastic, understanding that the ocean, when you look at it as an opaque surface, you can't see what's down there. But you have to understand it is not a garbage can. We have to do everything we can to let the species that are there thrive. And same on Earth or, you know, terrestrially but the ocean is the heart of the lungs of the planet.
 
This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity. To learn more about Octonation, click here.

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