An Interview with Julian Unthank, the Creator of ‘Queens of Mystery’

Julian Unthank is an accomplished screenwriter that has penned episodes of Robin Hood and Doc Martin over the course of his career. Currently, he is the creator and writer of the Acorn TV series, Queens of Mystery, and we here at Nerds That Geek had the opportunity to speak with Julian about the show and the craft of screenwriting.
 
John Betancourt: It is definitely safe to say that Queens of Mystery is one of the most refreshing crime shows on the market right now. Since it is free of the gritty detective trope. What brought about its unique structure and creation?
 
Julian Unthank: Well, that was kind of why I started this show really. Because I went out for dinner with an actress, an older actress. And she kind of said, she was a very well-known actress, and she said, when she reached the age of 40, the roles just stopped, you know, the offers. And after that she was just always given bit parts or, you know, mother in the background or grandmother, you know. And so, you know, I wanted to write a show about three women over the age of 50. But they were the lead characters. It wasn't a show about being a woman over the age of 50. Just to be the lead characters, you know, and then that's how the show kind of started. And also at the time, it's still happening a bit now. Everyone was making very sort of Scandi, noir type shows, and there was this huge Danish sort of Scandi influence. And, and that's what everybody wanted. And you think, well, shows takes so long to write and develop and get to production. By the time you've written what everybody wants today, it takes you two years down the line and the world moved on. So, the idea for me was to write something that was the exact opposite of what everybody was watching at the time. You know, it's just a standard. I mean, the Scandi thing is still very strong. But there is definitely a rise of cozy crimes, more shows are coming out like that.
 
John Betancourt: I’ve noticed that. That the cozy mystery is back on the rise right now, and speaking of that cozy aspect, what was it that motivated you to make this such a whimsical and almost magical show?
 
Julian Unthank: Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Amélie, you know, the French film. And I was heavily influenced, obviously, by Pushing Daisies but I think a lot of people that have seen Pushing Daisies maybe haven't seen Amelie and Pushing Daisies was massively influenced by Amélie. And I'm a fan of both. But Amelie was that kind of inspiration, and my starting point was what would happen Amelie was a cop? That was kind of the basis and that's kind of the basis of material we started from. And, and I love those sort of whimsical, sort of fantasy elements there. Because it was a visual medium, and we get you get fun director like Ian Emes. He's got this fantastic track record. And you've got someone like him, you know, he can just do so much with the written material. You know, I talked to him about keeping it light, and you know, I couldn't predict the pandemic, but I just think we just needed something lighter, and just less heavy and more, more, more fantasy, and Amélie is such a strong influence. For me personally, it's one of my favorite films, and it gives me as a writer, challenges to play around with and, you know, internal monologues and, and do all that sort of stuff you couldn't do in a straight drama in, you know, in straight sort of Scandi type drama. Because a lot of deaths are kind of comedic deaths. I wanted to go, I want you to sort of four quadrant show where I'm like watching with my nephews, and my nephews are sort of nine and 10, nine and 12, you know, they can watch it without—I haven't got to worry about them being offended or being upset. They just enjoy the visuals. You know what I mean? So, I think… I'm hoping it works. I wanted to show that worked as a family show. But without being that Saturday, corny, but it was a four quadrant sort of show, you know?
 
But I wanted that escapism. Television is about escapism, for me. And it's a chance to sort of put your worries and fears away for a couple of hours and, and to escape to another world. And a fun one, I want to do something, which was kind of had a light touch, but without sort of dumbing it down, you know, the scripts are really hard to write. They're really, really complex. They're massive, and I write reams and reams and reams of stuff before we ever get to the script. So, the technique is to make it look kind of simple and easy and light. But really, you hope that the viewers that are really into the show, can sort of dig deep and find lots of loads of loads of easter eggs in there and loads of little things in the background. And just if you're a casual viewer, you won't notice. But you notice that the people that are watching the show three- or four-times sort of tweeting and picking up on stuff. And it's seeping in, people are getting it slowly, you know, and it helps build in that sort of long term. Things like Twin Peaks, sort of massively, heavily conspiracy theory sort of shows go on talking about what's going on, what's she doing? Why are they doing that? I love that sort of stuff in a drama. And this gives you a chance to sort of build on and play around with it and Acorn TV are so generous. In terms of the sort of creative freedom they give you, they trust you enough to let you play around with the genre and do stuff that maybe other networks might not let you get away with, they might not let you experiment with as much.
 
John Betancourt: Now in talking about the freedom that you have to create. It does lead to me wonder, what it means to you to have created a show that is regarded as being so fresh and original?
 
Julian Unthank: Yeah, it's fantastic. It's my first show of my own. You know, I've been a Doc Martin writer for the last decade, and Doc Martin is one of the biggest, one of the biggest shows in the UK, we sell it to like 200 territories. And around the world. It's big, it's a big show, an icon on PBS in the States. And yet the opportunity to write my own show, and so few people get a chance to make their own show, but their own idea… that’s unnerving, you're always nervous about whether you can do it as a writer, and whether the audience is going to connect to it, you know, it's always a battle to get just even one show, get the show the ground, but then you get second season, and an Emmy nomination and kind of, it propelled us enough to sort of say, right, yeah, we will get a second season, we'll be able to explore that world more. And the hope is that, you know, that it will carry on, you know, for many seasons, you know. I've got long term plans for the show and the characters and what's gonna. And you just hope that the audience want the show enough and watch the show enough for it to carry on and give me a chance to sort of put the full narrative out.
 
So that's what I like about television is our ability to tell that long form narrative, you know, to be able to tell a story over dozens and dozens of hours as opposed to a two-hour movie script. And it's helped people invest. People really want to invest in the show, I love those sort of shows that you just get addicted to and you just have to watch the next episode. And you talk to your mates about and you sort of say What the hell does that mean? And what was what they were talking about when that happened? Or is that a complete red herring or what is that feeling? You know that sort of stuff. So, the reaction from the audience has been fantastic, much greater than I could have ever hoped for really, you know, I'm really grateful for the audience's reaction and for and for Acorn. We’ve just got to hope this season goes down well enough to get the third season and beyond you know?
 
John Betancourt: Well, I certainly hope it happens as well. You’ve got that amazing cliffhanger there in The Raven and I know that I certainly want more.
 
Julian Unthank: I mean, the show came out over here in the UK, just before Christmas, and the reaction to The Raven has been great. People sort of saying, you know, what's, what's going to happen Matilda? What's gonna happen with Daniel? Yeah, I mean, the love story is a strong element to it. I mean, all stories are love stories, really. But it's a strong part of the narrative to me. And it especially is for an audience. It's, you know, the whole, you know, Niles and Daphne thing, it's a reason you sort of come back to a show to see if it's ever going to be fulfilled. And we've got a little bit of that with Inspector Thorne and Jane, but obviously, the main narrative is with Daniel and Matilda, to see if that'll ever happen and what I mean, as a writer, you kind of you put a big hook at the end of the show, because you want when you want the audience to want more, you want the commissioners to sort of say, well you deserve one more. You know, there's this thing really, kind of producers want answers. And audiences want questions, you know, and as a writer, you're constantly… the pressure was on you, from producers to sort of finalize stories and finish the answers to everything, where I think the audience… for me, is this a journey… that's fun? We will find out what happened, you know, the mystery behind Matilda's mother, and we'll get to that in the end. But the fun for me is all the fun stuff you can have in getting there. And I hope the audience enjoys that as well.
 
John Betancourt: Oh absolutely, there’s so much in that ending to mull over with the mystery box and such. It’s amazing that this mystery show, has a giant mystery hanging over it.
 
Julian Unthank: Yeah, just finding out what the aunts know, and what don't they know, and what are they hiding? And, you know, what does Thorne know? But it's trying to eke it out, it's trying to sort of find he pace that is the difficult… it's very… it's harder when you haven't got an end date. So, if you said, you know, right, Julian, you've got five seasons to do this. You could plan over five. I'd like I'd like my pension; I'd like 15 seasons. Because I just enjoy writing. I just enjoy being in writing. I just love living in that world for so long. So, I'd like it to last as long as possible.
 
John Betancourt: Oh, I totally get that, fans love when a show can just keep rolling and rolling, just look at Supernatural. Now you mentioned writing there as well and that brings me to my next question, in that, what was it that got you into writing?
 
Julian Unthank: Well, I was working a whole variety of jobs. I used to be an animal trainer in film and television for quite a while. I was working at Pinewood Studios, which is the big, the big studio here that makes all the Star Wars movies, where they're all filmed. And I was sponsored by Primus studios to go to film school. And I went as a producer, to train as a producer. But when I got there, no one was writing. And so, I really sort of tried… I've never written before. I'm very, very dyslexic. I never read a book. I didn't read. I left school with no qualifications at all. And I didn't read a book until I was 21. And so, I didn't even go to film school until I was like 26, 27. So, I was given a writing exercise in class. And I thought, “Well, I'm gonna be terrible at this.” And actually found I quite enjoyed it. And, and so I sort of caught the bug there. And I’m sort of self-taught. And then I made a graduation film, which I got to Charles Dance to star in. Amazingly, he read the script. And it was called Potemkin: The Runner’s Cut. And it's all based. It's a very famous film by Sergei Eisenstein called the Battleship Potemkin. And it's taught, it's like one of the sort of pinnacle of film editing, you know, at the time, there was not these director's cuts coming out. So, I wrote the short film called Potemkin: The Runner's Cut, and later on got blind drunk at the wrap party. And the starting auditor, you know, wanted to see the film and so he hired this sort of 17-year-old idiot runner to edit the film for him, and started loving what would become the version we see now and, Charles Dance read the script and loved it so much, he agreed to be in my student film, and I had no money. And he came over, he flew over from Mexico. He paid for his own hotel, and he was in my film for like seven days, and then he flew to Mexico for filming, and he did all three for us. It was just amazing, and he was so kind.  
 
And I wrote the part of Starling. And I managed to get a copy of the script to Patrick Stewart. I was home one day, home one day, the phone rang. And he says, “Patrick Stewart here” and I'm like, Jean-Luc Picard is on the phone. And he says, one of the girls in costume, her mom got a haircut in the same place that his mom got a haircut and got the script to him. And he was in New York, on Broadway doing a show for the next 10 weeks, and said he couldn’t be in the film, but he loved the script. And he just wanted to, he just wanted to ring me wish me the very best of luck and hoped it worked out. And that from that point onwards, it just really sort of, it struck me how much I enjoyed writing and how, you know, the connections you can make. Yeah, and so from there, I wanted to make it a full-time career. And it's taken quite a while. And I mean, I've made a living, you know, writing in other shows. But this was the opportunity to make my own show.
 
And so, you kind of give it everything you've learned in the last kind of 20 years. And to pour that absolutely into your own project and sort of trying to try to put everything that, I'd learned as a screenwriter into devising a project that I could sort of keep running, you know. So, I got very lucky and lots of people are very kind, and I got lots of help. But that's kind of how I caught the bug from there really, and I still get lots of help. Since I’m dyslexic a computer reads everything to me, and it's proofread before I send it out and, and that sort of stuff. But I think, it's one of those things that if you want it bad enough… but writing is an acquired skill, you know, it's like everything else, you know? The more the more you write, the better you get. I'm constantly adding screenwriting books to my desk. And, I find, you know, the more I read about screenwriting… I hope, I'm a better writer now than I was like a year ago, and I'm hoping in a year's time, I'm going to be a better writer than I am now. And that's one of the best parts of the job really, is the fact that you're constantly learning and hopefully improving I think anyone can write. I think you've just got to get the discipline. It's just that, you know yourself, you've got to put your arse in the seat, put your hands on the keyboard, you just got to keep grinding.
 
You know, I always feel guilty when I'm not writing. I'm kind of moaning that I'm not writing, you know, and then I'm writing… I'm moaning. I'm writing a general thing that I'm moaning most of the time. I think it's a hard way to earn an easy living, I think you know, but when you get it, right, and when people really like the material, and you know, people connect to it, I find it's a real thrill getting on set. You can write some, you write some crazy, wacky things you've made up and then you go on set, and you find all this, you know… like the first episode, we had this castle made up of flags and everything and I’m all; “God. I made all this shit up.” And it’s amazing. I got a real kick from that, you know?
 
John Betancourt: Last question before we go today, what is it you’re most proud of when it comes to this series?
 
Julian Unthank: I think, well, I think I’m proud of that the audience has connected so well with it. Yeah. I’m really, really proud of the crew and the people around, how much… I mean you wouldn’t believe the hard work. I mean, in screenwriting, when I think about teaching it, I think screenwriting is such an incredibly collaborative process, amazingly collaborative. I mean, like, if you’re an author or graffiti artist or a poet, whatever, you know, it’s very, very, you know, to you absolutely distilled. But we’ve got amazing directors and amazing, credible actors, and everybody brings so much to it. And as a writer, you kind of get a lot of the credit for it and a lot of stuff. I’m not complaining, don’t get me wrong, but Ian Eams, our director, puts his heart and soul and so many hours of work into it, you know? He doesn’t get anywhere near the credit he deserves. The actors take the material and really work it, but people like… I don’t want to say the secondary characters, but people like Inspector Thorne and PC Foster and stuff. They take the material, and they really, really work it. You write stuff and think, oh, that’s quite funny, you know, and then they take it. And they’re so talented. And then they just make 10 times funnier. And just I never saw it that way, and Shavon does that a lot. And, I find I’m really proud of the way everyone sort of digs in.
 
I mean, when we say we punch above our weight quite a bit, we get so much stuff… like our opening credits, you know? Those pop-up credits, which aren’t computer generated, they are physically made pop ups. The guy that did the Paddington movie, in the second one, he opens that book, and it's a pop-up book of, of London and all the rest of it. And the guy that does that, is a fantastic pop-up artist, you know, and he's very highly prized, very talented guy. But he read the script, loved the material, and we didn’t have much money, and he just worked for like hardly anything for us, you know, I mean, and people time and time, again, people would come along and do stuff, but for very little money, because we don’t have a lot of money. But they give us the opportunity to sort of put as much on screen as possible. And I think thing I'm proudest of as opposed is just how collaborative the process has been. And for me, it's been a massive eye opener, because when you're a writer on another show, you kind of, you've got that point person, which is a script editor, who's your only real person you speak to, you go to a read or set you don’t speak to the actors all that much. For me, it was just a massive… I just learned so much by being involved with the production and, and being close to the producers, I've got some amazing producers who don't get anywhere near enough credit for the amount of shit that they have to put up with. And my admiration for producers has gone up, because, you know, they're the Fun Police. You know, everybody wants to spend money and do stuff, and they're the ones that step in and say stop all the fun.
 
So yeah, it's that is the collaborative nature of it, and how everybody's kind of got on board with it is what I'm sort of most proud of, and I just hope that it's gonna hope that it continues. And I mean, I get to play, I get the, I get the best part of it, you know, I get to be completely self-indulgent and write all this sort of stuff, you know, and there's very little interference in terms of the script from Acorn, or from the producers, they're really, really generous, I mean, certain production companies will be would be all over you, you know, every line of dialogue, every bit, you know, you've got someone on your shoulders, it’s quite oppressive. But not Acorn, they're just so smart. You know, they know that they will get the best out of you, if they trust you. They trust you enough. And not just me, but the director and the producer, to know that if we give them the freedom, and not just us, also the costume department, the art department, all the people that absolutely put so much into it. And they trust you enough to sort of say, right, do what you do, what you do best. And then and then you get the results. You know, hopefully you get the results. So that's what I'm most proud of. I think, you know, I'll be proud when we get a real Emmy. I mean, we'd like season six, or seven or eight or even better, but it's a long way to go.
 
This interview was lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

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