An Interview with Alex Mandel, the Composer of ‘The Inventor’

Photo of Composer Alex Mandel Courtesy of Blue Fox Entertainment.

Alex Mandel is a highly accomplished composer that has written songs and music for a bevy of beautiful films, including Brave. Alex’s current project is The Inventor, where he composed a moving soundtrack and musical numbers for its all-star cast to perform and we had the honor of sitting down with Alex to discuss his latest work.
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John Betancourt: What was it that got you into composing in the first place?

Alex Mandel: Yeah, I… from a very, very young age, I just was attracted to music and my mom says that when I was in the crib, if I heard music, I would turn and listen. Or if she maybe like sang something, I’d really pay attention. And I started playing piano when I was about three and guitar when I was about six, because I played it on my lap. You know, I've been playing music my whole life. And to me, it's always just been an incredibly deep well of enjoyment and study, and I just love it. You can never get to the bottom of it. You know, there's just so much there. So yeah, and then I think I heard Cheap Trick on the radio. And I was like, “I want to be a rock star!” So, I formed a band first when I was about 12, and played in bands until I was about 31 or something. And then I got a job at Pixar. And people started asking me to do music for their projects. So that was sort of the transition from being in rock bands and playing gigs and recording albums and, and then trying to learn to score, about last 20 years I've been scoring.
John Betancourt: What is it you love about composing?

Alex Mandel: I think what's so great is, I mean, I've been lucky to work with incredibly talented writers and directors and you know, Mark Andrews on Brave, of course, Jim Capobianco on The Inventor. Dan Scanlon on Tracy, Anthony Lucero on East Side Sushi. So, what happens is, you get to really know people, because the relationship between the director and the composer is… it's really close. Like, I can't write music unless I really understand the story and the characters. So sometimes in these conversations, you really learn something about the creator of it, the person who's writing the story. And a lot of the directors want to be my friends, because it's pretty intimate. You know, like, of all the things you could write about, why are you writing about this? You know, why is this? What's the feeling that you have in this scene, and, and then you have to dig into it. So, it's a really interesting craft and process. And then of course, I'm like a translator. I, luckily, being at Pixar for 10 years, like I learned a lot about filmmaking. And so, I'm translating a filmmaker’s language into the musical language. And it's tempting to use musical language, but really, you're talking about emotions, and arc and character and story and then, and then you try something. And you have to be humble and know that music is subjective. So, what you're again, trying to figure out what makes this, what moves this creator and this director? And that's just a fascinating process, you know?

John Betancourt: A process I do want to dive into deeper in a moment. But not before we get a chance to learn… what excited you about this project.

Alex Mandel: Well, the first thing is just Jim and I worked together on his Ratatouille short, which was called Your Friend the Rat. And it was our first project together. And it was so fun. And what I noticed is, once we got going, Jim is very open to crazy ideas. Like what if we did, you know, kind of “out jazz” in theis scene? Or what if you know, and he's very open to things that are not typical. And I really liked that about working with him. So, the same thing happened on The Inventor. We started out, “well, should we have like Renaissance music?” But in discussions, it was like, “Well, we've already got a puppet that's quite caricature. It's a beard with little beady eyes. And it's a genius, the greatest genius ever lived. So, there's already this distance between us and that figure.” So, we talked about how can we make the music both feel true to the time and also give people a way in, emotionally? What's been interesting is I think there's a lot of people seem to really like it. And some people are confused, like, it's not Renaissance music, but it doesn't have hooks like popular music. So, it's, it's different, you know, but I was really excited to work with Jim and really excited to, because I knew we could try something new. And we could do something wild and have a Monty Python song and a really heartfelt song, and a song based on a piece by Montiverde and he's just very open and voracious in his tastes. So that just makes it a lot of fun to work with Jim.

John Betancourt: Now in diving in to the creative process, I noticed that this movie uses a variety of themes and just a variety of choices as to where the music takes you. How did you and Jim decide to use the themes you used?

Alex Mandel: Yeah, I mean, it started out... I think there was one song initially in the script. And Jim had this… it's just a brilliant idea. It's the scene where Leonardo comes to -- and his workshop is the Château de Close Lucé, which, if you ever get a chance to go there, it's it looks exactly like it does in the movie. I… when I finally got there, I kind of had this weird Déjà vu because I'd written the songs in the bedroom where Leonardo da Vinci died. And there it was! I mean, when he goes out the window, there's the window! It was wild. But we started there. And, and, you know, that's so… only Jim would think of that. “I'm gonna have a scene where the wall there's a blank canvas, and the walls come up, and you see very clearly the underlying medium of stop motion.” And, and so then I thought, “Oh, how I love a blank canvas.” You know, like, that's the beginning. And so, that's an example where Jim's conception of the scene really informs the lyric. And we wanted to express all the various projects, the multitude of projects da Vinci worked on, including many, most he didn't finish, you know, so there's this long list. So, every song had a different origin. The big one, I think, was “From This Tiny Seed”, and the Mona Lisa moment, which is how do you dramatize a moment where someone discovers the meaning of life? I mean, that's a tall order. You don't… you, you want to be clear. But you…  if you just say, “I know what the meaning of life is! It’s this” Well, that's tough, right? Dramatically. That's not very satisfying.

So, it just evolved over time that we had this piece of music from this tiny seed, and then which is based on the multivariate piece. And then we had the Mona Lisa song, which represents the point where he's lowest. And then we have the moment where the two come, it transitions from one into another. So, what I'm describing, not very well, is a very organic, iterative process, which is unique to animation. Because you have time and you try things, and if it doesn't work, you try something new. And then you say, “I got it!” And then you have this moment of epiphany, which is then reflected in the art itself. So, it's just a very, it's a very rewarding and challenging and inhuman process. You know, I love that it's not a genre picture. It's a picture that's about the creative process and the meaning of it of being a creative person. So that was pretty cool.

John Betancourt: I think that’s a perfect way to describe the process. Now you mentioned challenges. What kinds of challenges came forth in assembling this score?

Alex Mandel: Well, yeah, challenges. I mean, luckily, I had a great music team. One challenge was our budget was quite limited. And so initially, I was going to record the whole thing in New Zealand, but we wanted to have some larger orchestral pieces. We wound up realizing that we could record 40 strings, in Budapest and Budapest scoring has a wonderful group of musicians there. And then I recorded the brass and the woodwinds and a string quintet in New Zealand. And then I did the guitars, the lutes, myself, I taught myself the Renaissance lute. I mean, so that was a challenge, getting our lute made in time. Because the waiting list is like a year. Luckily, the luthier squeezed me in, someone cancelled. So, he squeezed me in. So, there were challenges. I mean, I guess another challenge is, you know, Stephen Fry had said, when we were recording this, I literally can't sing. And so, in the moment, we had to come up with a creative solution. And I think you know, the scene I'm talking about, with the Mona Lisa song, we came up with a creative solution, which to me, was even better. And to me, that's a challenge, but it's the best type of challenge, like, what do you do? I can't say, “Okay, give me 45 minutes, I'm going to rewrite the lyrics. And we've got a different approach.” And, you know, we don't… it's not like we can have multiple voice recording. But yeah, it was… every challenge had a solution and finding the solution is a really rewarding process for us.

John Betancourt: Well, I have learned a lot about Lutes today. I had no idea there was a long list to have those made.

Alex Mandel: Talk about geek culture. There's a very small number of Luthiers that make Renaissance Lutes. And there's a bit more people who want them. So, there you go.

John Betancourt: I’m so looking into all of this after we finish talking, I do have to know more. Now, I sense a lot of passion and joy in your voice about this project and for music in general, what was it you enjoyed the most about working on this project?

Alex Mandel: Just… Jim Capobianco. Jim is such a unique artist. And he's, you know, legendary in the field because he came out of Cal Arts and wrote the scene in Lion King, where the father says to Simba is their ancestors are in the stars, which is to me like the heart, one of the hearts of that film because it feels authentic. And just to imagine the young Jim, you know, researching West African folklore and saying, “what about this?” So, Jim is such a unique artist, and it's so fun -- to he's very open to collaboration and very open to different ideas, you know. And so that makes it really, really rewarding. And also, the subject matter. I mean, you're dealing with a very complex and interesting historical character, but you're doing it in the style of Rankin and Bass and with hand drawn animation, I mean, it's just all that, it’s just, this is a movie for people who are like, “I like things that are different. I like things that don't fit neatly into a box.” And, and like, yeah, like that experience of being challenged, but amused, but also, you know, intrigued by something, a unique vision. So, for me, that makes it really fun to work with, with Jim and, and the crew. The amazing, talented crew, you know, in France and Valance, and Saint-Péray. And they’re just… remarkable. So, all of it. Just all the people that were attracted to the movie are people that are really passionate about animation and about storytelling and independent filmmaking. That's really fun.

John Betancourt: Now that this movie is out in the world, what are you hoping audiences experience emotionally from your score.

Alex Mandel: Well, I mean, that's an interesting question. While they're watching the movie, I hope that they're just immersed in it, and they're transported, you know, to a world of creativity and something no AI would create, I mean, just something very human and a very, very unique vision and for the score. I hope people will, if they listen closely, will see that there's… there's a lot of thought that went into the score. Each character has an instrument. Each idea has a motif and a theme. Those themes are passed from one character to another. They're developed and combined, and there's a lot of underlying detail there. I hope people listen to the score on its own afterwards, because it's just beautifully recorded. You know, we've got a 55-piece orchestra at times, a string quintet, just some wonderful players. You know, the, the principles from the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, just amazing musicians recorded beautifully by John Neill in New Zealand and mixed by Mark Willsher. So, there's… there's so much talent in the recording and in the orchestrations by Ewan Clark. I mean, it's just… it was such an honor to work with this caliber of musician, so I hope people listen to it and appreciate all that.

John Betancourt: Last question I have for you today, what are you most proud of when it comes to your work on this project?

Alex Mandel: I'm most proud of the fact that we stuck with it. You know, we stuck with the process. It took a long time. And you know, again, this… some projects you do, are about compensation. And some are about love, and some are about both, but this was a passion project for both me and Jim. And I'm proud that we stuck with it and Jim was happy with the work and that we got it out there with total creative freedom and this is, I’m proud to make a work of art that refuses to just fit in a box. And that represents a really unique vision. And for people who like that, I think they'll like this a lot. This is quite different. If people come in with an idea of what they think it's gonna be. I think that you need to come in with an open mind and be absorbed into this vision.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

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