An Interview with the Creative Team of ‘Curses!’

Key Art for ‘Curses!’ Courtesy of Apple.

Jeff Dixon, Jim Cooper, and Leo Riley are a trio of accomplished creatives in Hollywood, that have worked in writer’s room, as producers and Leo also works as a director. Currently, they’ve teamed up to bring Curses! on Apple TV+ to life, and we here at NTG were lucky enough to sit down to discuss this important show with them.
 
John Betancourt: What brought this project to life?
 
Jim Cooper: Okay, well, basically, so Jeff and I were not always a writing team, together, we kind of had totally separate careers, Jeff, mostly in horror. I'm mostly in like family animation, that kind of stuff. And our kids are going to school together. And so, we’d drop the kids off at school and walk back and just kind of talk shop and we’d end up standing on the street corner for like an hour. Just talking about stuff. And we're always like, “Oh, it'd be really great to combine horror and family and animation. What can we do and idea wise?” And a lot of it started with, was talking about my family curse, which my dad died when I was younger. He had his, he had his brother, and his brothers-in-law all die at a relatively young age. And so, it became a joke amongst the family that it was our family curse. And my cousin was literally going through my grandpa's photo album, and, and found this photo. So that's my grandfather holding the skull. Like, okay, there we go. It's… whose skull is it? Well, that's how we solve the curse! (Laughs) Anyway, Jeff and I were actually talking about that. What if you did have a family curse, how would you get rid of it? And so it kind of grew from there were just logically then we built from that.
 
Jeff Dixon: Honestly, I will say this, this might even lend a little bit more into how the tone kind of ended up. But it's kind of like what (Jim) Cooper talked about, which is, we both kind of came from two different worlds. And mine is definitely more of the darker horror world, his was a lot more of a funny comedy world. And, you know, anytime that one of us would go too much in one direction, we would pull the other back. So, it was like I would always, you know, try to push more horror, and he'd be like, “Dude, you can't do that.” He tried to like, pitch some jokes that were just too zany. And I'd be like, “No, no zany rule.” And we would like, end up kind of in the middle. And I mean, just for me as a as a personal thing. Really, it was finding that sort of gateway horror, scary material for kids that is really not on the market right now. Stuff that we grew up with, that were actually scary. Um, you look at some of the like, originally PG rated movies like Poltergeist and Gremlins. And I mean, that's like legit scary stuff. And they just don't do that anymore. And so, we were always like, “you know, we need something for our kids at the time that we had, that really wasn't available at the time.” So that became a real touchstone for us.
 
John Betancourt: Now, Leo, what was it that excited you about getting to work on this project?
 
Leo Riley: Well, the fact that it was a gateway horror, there's not a lot of content in that space. At least at that point, there's definitely been a big surge of that type of content starting to happen now. So, I guess I'm always looking for different kinds of projects to engage in, you know, having kind of worked from in comedy, all the way even in preschool all the way through action, et cetera. So, I'm always looking for something new to engage with and in, you know, a horror show. Absolutely. I’m in.
 
John Betancourt: Digging a little deeper into the show’s elements of horror, I'm very curious why each of you think it's so important than that. We have a little bit of that horror spice in in kids programming at this point in time.
 
Jeff Dixon: Well, I always relate to like how I was a kid watching horror. And the reason I kind of got into horror, was… I'm not the kid… never was, and I’m still not the person who is just watching a horror movie and sitting back in their chair, just like (Monotone) “Don't go in that door. Boo. So scary.” Like, I freak out all the time. Like I still like something scary. I'm just like, you know, kind of doing this (Pretends to Hide) and I'm like, that's how I am now. And when I was a kid, I did it because I saw it as a way to challenge myself. And I would be like, “You know what, this is a dare, this is terrifying, but I'm going to do it.” And then when it was done and the credits would roll, I had this like super kind of like proud feeling where I'm like, I achieved something, you know what I mean? It was like this is like God over the spirit. And in a weird way, it can kind of translate to real fears and overcoming real fears. And I know that sounds like such a deep kind of psychological thing. But there's a lot of psychology to fear that people just don't talk about, they think about “Oh, horror is just, you know, schlocky, whatever.” But there's a lot of like, they always say, like, during times of struggle, that horror viewing actually goes up, because they say that it takes people's mind away from the real horror. And it shows how you can actually deal with the real horrors. And so, when it comes to kids, a lot of times people are afraid to do something scary for kids, but it's actually really psychologically healthy for them to see something scary in a safe space and feel like they can overcome it at the end. And we just didn't feel like that was out there right then. So, we wanted to do that.
 
Jim Cooper: You know, because it's funny, I've always, I've always loved things that are hybrids, like, horror/comedy, is a great example. Because when something is just one thing, it's, it's too predictable. You know, where you go, “Okay, this, here's the formula, here you go.” And I think particularly like, with, with young people, too, it's learning about all the different things that are possible, you know, all the different flavors that are out there versus just, this is what a family show is, I mean, think about, like, the great literature, and the younger kids throughout the years, and there's a huge, a wide variety of stuff. And so, if they think, “I'm into science fiction,” they can seek out the gateway science fiction, and there are gateway horror stories, and comedies, and very rarely do I find it interesting. If they are just one thing.
 
John Betancourt: Now, another thing that I noticed, too, is that the show has a phenomenal visual flare to it. Leo, why is a specific visual style so important to a show like this?
 
Leo Riley: Ah, I would say, I mean, let me just speak to the roots of where it comes from. And I would say, it's, you know, early on the, the art director, David Chung, and I just, were kicking the idea back and forth quite a bit and trying to figure out like a visual trigger that immediately tells you kind of what space you're sort of working in, being, you know, like some sort of a horror space, and I think that came from referencing E.C. comics. You know that kind of brushwork style. Yeah. Vault of Horror, all of those comic books, that immediately gives us some kind of grounding in the space. And also, it's just kind of interesting to look at, you know, we're always trying to do something new and that engages us. So yeah, I think it coming from that inspiration. And being something that, you know, we hadn't kind of done before, I think it's, it's important, we always want to do new stuff and push things where we can.
 
John Betancourt: There are a lot of great messages to find in this story, what do you each hope is the top message the audience takes away from this show?
 
Jeff Dixon: As far as the messaging goes, I mean, it's one of the things that we always talked about, you know, we talked about the Indiana Jones and reverse aspect, and how you know, you know, you're not going out and get these artifacts or bringing them in, but the other aspect that we always talked about was a line that Indiana Jones always said, which is “that belongs in a museum,” and how that line feels so dated now, because while yeah, some things do belong in a museum, it's really more important to find out where the thing is actually from and where it actually should belong. And so, it's like, finding out actually, the original owners, what sort of scenarios it went through to, and whose hands it went through to get to a certain space and finding out the meanings of it from one culture to another. And it's like, finding out that sort of, I mean, everybody can say a different types of thing. You can say, repatriation, you can say all this stuff, but it's really just finding out about where a certain aspect of whether it's an artifact or an aspect of culture came from and actually learning about that aspect and culture and finding out the, you know, what you should be knowing about it.
 
Jim Cooper: So, what I would say is, you know, it's a family problem that the family is dealing with. And what I really like is that the family is dealing with it, together. It's not the kids just go off on their adventure, or the parents solve it all. I mean, we made a real point in like, episode two, you know, Skye trying to protect the kids from what's happening, and then the kids having to go, “it's gonna happen to us, whether we like it or not, we have to be part of this.” And she has to learn to give them enough freedom to join in. And I like that they're doing it as a team. And some episodes, some people are stronger than others. So that it's a group effort. And it's not just “kids will save the day” or “listen to your parents,” that it's sometimes you're going to have different skills and strengths. And sometimes you have to rely on someone else. But that's the core part about being a family.
 
Leo Riley: Well, I mean, I hope that people take away some thoughtful storytelling, some scares, and that, even though, yeah, it has some pretty intense moments that at the end, the ride, roller coaster ends.
 
John Betancourt: Last question I have for each of you today, what are you most proud of when it comes to this series?
 
Leo Riley: Ah, I'm most proud of, you know, working with a really strong, thoughtful crew. You know, everybody was really committed to the project. I think that's, that's the biggest thing. I'm always really you know, knowing that these projects are kind of a culmination of a lot of people's efforts, I think it's just really, that's what I'm probably most proud of, is that we all came together and helped Jeff and Jim, you know, make a show that, that we're all proud to be part of.
 
Jim Cooper: Well, it kind of goes hand in hand with what Leo was saying. I'm actually really proud that we did a lot of stories that you really wouldn't normally see on television, in kids’ television, or adult television or anything like, and that we're dealing with aspects of thought and culture that you don't normally see. But I also love that everyone on the crew, watching the show, I can point to key things and go “So and So came up with that, that that was the insight of So and So.” And it actually was nice people like on the crew going, “Oh, this is an aspect. I can infuse in the show.” So that it's somewhat unusual, in that it's, it's unusual. And it's part of all of us.
 
Jeff Dixon: I mean, I will not continue, but I absolutely agree with the crew aspect. And we really did have such a magical crew, and everybody handled it, it's just like, you can't even not say that aspect. But one of the things just from a personal point of view that I am really proud of is the fact that we had a pretty early rule in the writer’s room that we weren't going to ever talk down to kids. Where like this may be a show that is… we're not making a show for kids. We're making a show for everyone that is accessible to kids. And so, we always wanted to say that you know what? Kids are a lot smarter and understand a lot more than people give them credit for. And so, whether it is in the storytelling, where it's like, you know what, they can follow a complex story over the course of a season or whether it's the scare where it's like, oh, you know what, this is a scary moment, but they can handle it. Oh, or whether, you know, we never, we never acted as if we had to treat kids with white cotton gloves that we respected kids enough that they could follow along with complex storytelling and some actual scares. So, I think I'm most proud of that.
 
This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

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