Austin Film Festival Conversations: Kevin Duncan Wong, Director of ‘Home is a Hotel’

Director Kevin Duncan Wong.

Kevin Duncan Wong is an accomplished documentarian whose current project, Home is a Hotel, explores a unique aspect of American life. And we here at NTG were lucky enough to sit down with Kevin to discuss all aspects of his new feature.
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John Betancourt: So, let’s talk a little bit about what inspired you to tell this story.
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: Yeah, totally. Um, so you know, the film is set in San Francisco. Which is where I live. And I had done a short documentary about a woman and her daughter living in an SRO, a residential hotel room, in Chinatown, with one of the producers, co-directors on the film, Todd, he had a friend, Todd and I were part of a filmmaking cooperative in San Francisco. And he had a friend that worked in the Mayor's Office of Housing at the time. She's a consulting producer on the film, Sasha Hauswald, and she came to him and said, “You know, I think somebody should do something about the situation in these buildings, with the direction that the prices of housing are going in San Francisco, it’s getting really tough for folks, and someone should do a documentary about it.” And so that was around like, 2014-15, I think. And that was kind of like in San Francisco, it was kind of this turning point where it felt like we were coming out of the 2008 recession. And then things were kind of starting to turn from like, “Yay, the economy's coming back,” to like, “Okay, things are getting a little crazy, like what's going on?” And so, the idea of like, thinking about, like, everyone could, could relate to how difficult it was to like to afford a place to live in San Francisco, and the larger Bay area, but the idea of like, looking at it from what's the smallest possible place you could have, was sort of interesting, very visual. And so, we made that short, and just kind of like, shot it over for weekends, like over a couple of months, four weekends. And kind of put it together didn't really think anything of it. Like literally, like the only budget was like lunch for our crew, and like licensing some music. So, it was like $1,000. And so, we just made it and put it out. And then, much to our surprise, it started to get into a bunch of festivals and started winning awards, and then it ended up getting distributed by PBS.
 
And so, we were like, “Okay, there's some, like, there's an audience for this, it's sort of interesting.” And then at the same time, during that period of, making that film, my grandfather actually passed away. And the last sort of like year of his life, we had a woman who was coming to help take care of him, you know, like, as people need when they get older. And at the screening of the short film, we used to call that woman “San Yi”, which means like, “distant aunt’ in Chinese. And so, after one of the screenings we had in San Francisco, that my aunt, my, my dad's sister, my aunt came to, after the screening of the film short, she came up to me and said, “You know, San Yi lives in an SRO.” And I had no idea. And it's like this woman who had been a part of my family for a whole year, I had no idea she lived like this. And so that, plus the making of the short, we sort of like understood that there's this whole sort of like, group of people that really sort of like make the city run, make the city what it is, that, you know, don't make a lot of money.
 
And so, things are tough for them. And so, wanting to sort of like, shine a light on that. And then also understanding that, you know, the, this short we did was just about a new immigrant from China and her daughter that we're living in an SRO. And that's an important experience for people to know about. But it's not the only experience that is represented by people who live in residential hotels. And so, you know, we really wanted to zoom out and tell a more sort of kaleidoscopic, or sort of, like more complete picture of who lives in this kind of housing in San Francisco. And in particular, because, you know, these buildings have bad reputations, and we want to sort of like interrogate, like, some people's thought, is just tear all the buildings down, and you'll get rid of the problem. And we sort of felt like the answer was a little bit more nuanced than that.
 
John Betancourt: So, this is an ambitious documentary because it really is timely and relatable. Plus, this is a story that really does showcase some raw moments, and I’m quite curious, because this could not have been an easy shoot, what kind of challenges did you run into in telling such intimate stories?
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: This was definitely not an easy film to make. I think, initially, the first challenge, was just getting people to talk to us. This, we started the feature version of this project, in 2016. And so, as you can imagine, with the election that year, a lot of people in these buildings like maybe don't have, like legal status in United States, some folks are trans, some folks are like, fleeing something or other from another place where, you know, they're sort of like targets in various ways. And so, you know, us sort of like walking around knocking on doors, like some a couple of strangers, like nobody wants to talk to us. But fortunately, the community group that we had worked with in Chinatown to make this short, was really happy with how the film came out. And I think in particular, they appreciated that we didn't dwell on the more salacious aspects of living in residential hotels, we really were trying to, you know, celebrate the resilience and the tenacity of, and like how much effort the folks that are living there, are putting into trying to improve their situation. And so, they made some introductions on our behalf to other community groups and other neighborhoods. And that made a big, big difference, because once we, once we started talking to them, they started to introduce us to people that they knew, and that was, you know, a much easier way to build rapport.
 
And so, from there, we had, I think we had a spreadsheet of about, like, 15 people, I think we were considering following. And for various reasons, either their life circumstance or we sort of made the call that we didn't think that they were quite a right fit for the film, we sort of narrowed it down to the five people that we follow. And then from there, we kind of just started shooting. And, you know, the other piece, you know, this is an observational verité film, right. So that means we're not sitting people down and asking them to answer questions and sort of like, tell what happened in the past, we're trying to film things as they happen. And so that's always a very risky kind of film to undertake. And then I think, particularly because we didn't have a film that fit, it's sort of interesting, we're at the Austin Film Festival, which is like, also a Writer’s Conference, right. And there's this movement in documentary to fit the story that you're telling into the classic three act structure, right, you follow a hero, and you follow their journey, like on this three-act structure. And, and that's not really the film that we were trying to make, right. And so, there was some additional hesitancy, because if you have, if you have a film where you're just following one person, right, you can kind of imagine like, okay, like, they're gonna go on this journey. And like, I understand who this one character is that I'm following. But, you know, we're kind of really trying to paint a broader portrait of a city or a community, and people couldn't really sort of like wrap their heads around that. And so, in the early stages, it was very, very difficult to fundraise.
 
And so, we were just, we got a couple of small grants from some local arts organizations. And then I got into a fellowship from an organization there, its national program, but they're based out of San Francisco called the Bay Area Video Coalition. I got into their fellowship, and that really was the thing that sort of like kept me going even as we weren't having a lot of success initially, fundraising. Then once we sort of started to have some footage, and I think having some footage and having shot for like, I think, two years or so, the project started to come together for people a little bit more. And then sort of like, we sort of slowly built momentum there in terms of being able to raise additional funds, started to get more grants and things like that, sort of like culminating in us receiving support from Sundance and a couple other big funders. As we were entering post.
 
John Betancourt: Now you mentioned objectivity there, and really just documenting the moment. That could not have been easy. So how did you keep it objective, especially with such raw humanity in front of you?
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think a few things, right. So, like, I'm sort of one of those people that may be a little bit cringes when I hear people talk about objectivity, because I think it's sort of an abstract ideal, a lot of the time. And so, I think what the best you can do, is being honest about your perspective. And so that was what we were trying to do with the film. And so, I feel like the film is very much like from my, and my team's perspective, like, this is what we saw, and we heard, and we recorded it, right, that's kind of what the film was trying to do. And so like, acknowledging that, that's the limited view that it has, right. But then also, it's a very, like, intimate, and like up close and personal view also. So, it's much more detailed than you might get in like a two-minute segment on the nightly news, right. And so like, that's the value and it may be sort of, like limited in sort of like, it’s field of vision, but it's very up close.
 
And so just sort of like always leaning on that. And then I think the other thing that I really wanted with the film is, besides sort of, like, bringing these stories out, that people don't know about, I also really wanted it to feel like we wanted it to be something that got people to disengage from their intellect, and engage with their emotions and their experiences, we wanted them to like, experience what it's like to be in San Francisco, in this moment. And then like, from the point of view of someone who's living in a room, and so like, with those kind of two, you know, load stars, I think that is really what helped us make the decisions to help the film have the feeling that it's sort of like objective or sort of like, as if you were seeing it for yourself.
 
John Betancourt: Obviously, you know, this is something very important to you, has meant a lot to you. As a filmmaker, how, how do you process the gravity of what you see through so much footage, I mean, obviously, this is the finished product, you said yourself it took two years of shooting for this.
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: It was it was two years of shooting before we started to get money. Five years of shooting total.
 
John Betancourt. I apologize, my mistake, five years of shooting. That’s a lot and that's a lot of very raw, intimate moments. Some very heartbreaking I'm sure, some very uplifting. Because there was a lot of catharsis and seeing some of those escape get away from SROs and get into a house and a second chance. But you personally, how did you process this?
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: Yeah, I mean… I just did, I just did the best that I could. It's funny, a friend of mine, who's been doing this a little bit longer than I have has kind of been on a little bit of a soapbox about normalizing including therapy in documentary budgets. And after, after this after this project. I definitely agree with her. But, you know, it's sort of like back to the objectivity question, I think the only thing you can really do is just like, embrace your humanity in the process, embrace your empathy, like, I just had, I had to interact with these people as a human being and with empathy. And so as hard as it may have been to bear witness to some of their struggles. I feel like I could always take solace that I, like I was always doing what I felt like was the right thing in the moment. And also, that, like, you know, we were on that journey together. And like, part of why they let us in is because they wanted other people to know that there are literally thousands of people that go through the same thing. And so that, I think, you know, for all the moments when it was hard, that's what kept me going. And that's what kept us from giving up, you know, because there was definitely a point where I was like, “Why am I doing this? Why, why am I putting myself through this? What is this all for? Is this even going to make a difference? Like, I should just give up this? This is going to be terrible, anyways.” You know, all the all the doubts, all the things that anyone has about a creative project, plus, how hard it was, and how, you know, how tough it was both to make it and sort of like, also for the people in the film. But that that was, you know, that was really what kept us going. But yeah, I mean, just, you know, you have to, you have to figure it out. I don't know, there's not like one easy answer.
 
John Betancourt: That’s okay. Much prefer the candor to a situation like that, and it helps me to see your passion for this project and that leads me to my next question, why is this subject so important to you?
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: The other intention with the film is for it to be very much… like, San Francisco is funny. It's very, it's very, it's much maligned, outside of the Bay Area. Like, there's, I feel like every, like, once a month, there's an article in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, or The New York Times about how screwed up San Francisco is. But it's like, that's, you know, that's my city. Right? Like, my dad was born there, that's where I became an adult, like, that's my city, you know, like, you can't say bad things about it, unless, unless you love it. For me, it was like, both wanting to make a love letter to my city, but then also challenge it, to live up to what it sort of says its values are and what I think it can be, yeah, was really a big, motivating factor, for sure. And then I think, at the same time, you know, like, so I'm sort of in a unique position where I grew up in LA, my dad was born in San Francisco, grew up there, and then moved down to Southern California, which is where I was born. And so, I lived there until I was 18.
 
And then moved back to San Francisco and my parents had gotten divorced at that point. So, he was living in San Francisco at that, at that point, so like, his whole family, extended family… I have four cousins, and like they all live in, oh, five cousins, and they all live in, in San Francisco or like, did when I moved there. And so, seeing, you know, seeing that dichotomy between myself who sort of like, was able to like have a relatively privileged upbringing, I was able to go to like college prep school, and like, all this kind of stuff I like, you know, did that whole route. And then like some other people in my family, our extended family who, you know, maybe didn't have as much opportunity and like how much they were struggling, right, with, just like the basics and stuff like that, and sort of like, just within my family, the sort of like, divergence of life trajectories and sort of, like the challenges that people were facing. Just, I had sort of like a bit of a personal view on the challenges like, quote unquote, working class folks have in the city.
 
And so that I feel like gave me a little bit of a perspective like, it's not just about… like, the other thing that people do is like blame the tech industry, right, which has like, grown in San Francisco. And like, all the people that move there for those good jobs, and it’s sort of like I'm sort of like in this interesting in between positionality, where like, I'm sort of technically, I didn't go to high school in San Francisco. So, I don't necessarily think of myself as a native. But I also have a very deep history and connection to the city. And so, kind of in between, and sort of, like seeing all these things, and it's really, really sort of like stepping back and seeing that like, view of like, “No, we're all in this together. And like, that's the only way we're gonna fix this.” Right? And instead of like, pointing fingers, blaming this industry or that community for the problems, like we really need to sort of, like, accept their role in this together and like, work through it together.
 
John Betancourt: It’s funny you mention that blame game. I’m from Denver, and the city is exploding, and we have our challenges with housing prices and housing for the homeless. But there’s a lot of directionless blame out here as to why, when there is no one reason. So, it’s nice to hear someone say we need to blame less and worry about the problem at hand, since that would solve some problems back home, and clearly, that’s a good reminder of how systemic this has become. But that aside, I do have a few more questions for you. Such as what you hope this feature accomplishes outside of raising awareness.
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: So, I mean, there's a few things. So, the first is I think, and you sort of like touched on this, when you were talking about Denver, is like, this is not just a San Francisco issue like this, like, housing that's affordable to working class people is an issue across the country, right. And so, one of the statistics that we have in the film, I like to talk about like, so when we started working on pitching the film, we would put in this statistic that said, point 1%, so 1/10 of 1% of the counties in the United States, a person working minimum wage can afford a one bedroom apartment, and we finished the film, that number was down to zero. There was no county in the United States where someone working for minimum wage could afford a one bedroom. So, like, that's moving in the wrong direction.
 
So, like, first is like this is affecting every community in the country, no matter where you are, this is affecting the community. And I think the second thing is just trying to really like re engage people's humanity when talking about the issues, and help and really center the fact that like, there are human beings that are struggling, that are part of our community. And like, doing something about making housing affordable for everyone, like making housing affordable and available for everybody in the community, it makes everyone better. And so, understanding it as a public good, instead of like thinking about, like, if we think about the way that we shape our public policy around housing, right, it trends towards maximizing people's property values. Right? And is that necessarily the way that we want to treat housing? Right? It's one of the three essentials for survival, right? Food, water, shelter. We understand that like, clean, safe, affordable drinking water makes our community better, right? Like, we need to have a similar understanding about housing. And if we can sort of reshape our thinking around it to be more like that, then that sort of like shapes, you know, your decision whether or not to oppose an affordable housing project, in your neighborhood, whether or not to, you know, encourage section eight vouchers, whether or not to encourage like, eviction interventions, right.
 
Like, there's so many small, like, the challenge with housing is that there are so many small things that you can do, there's no one silver bullet. But then that's kind of why I think it takes a narrative shift and a cultural shift to really change that, just because you need a lot of people to understand that reframed thinking and make those smaller decisions across a bunch of communities. And there are some national things that we could do like increased funding for Section Eight housing. One of the people who researches this issue we've talked to, has made the point that there's no -- all the research indicates that once someone like becomes homeless, is living on the street. At a minimum, it takes two years for them to turn their life around. There is no federal program that will fund housing for somebody for two years. Right. So, there are things like that that we could do, but it's a bigger issue than just that right. We need to make a lot of small changes to our local communities in how we think about it.
 
John Betancourt: So, you bring up a great point there. Several great points. That we need to start approaching this different, and we need to start thinking about differently and get engaged in our communities. So, let’s dive into that a little further and really explore, what can I and others do differently, to start influencing change on this?
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: So, I mean, it's, I think the two big things I kind of touched on this, them a little bit earlier, but the two big things we're like, really thinking about, whenever there's a measure or some sort of like policy thing coming to your to your neighborhood that's like related to housing, or sort of like how we use land, right? Really sort of, like, engage with the issue and stop and think about it and say, like, okay, really thinking this through, like, will this help there be more housing that is affordable, for someone who's, like, you know, working like, a median wage job, right, like minimum wage job, like, someone doesn't make a ton of money? Is this going to actually, like improve that? Or not? Because the other thing is, there's some people that argue that, if we just like got rid of all the regulations and sort of like barriers to housing, we would just like, build all these buildings, and everything would be fine. It's like, is this something that's going to be built, like affordable to people who are working class? That's really the question because it doesn't matter if you have a ton of luxury buildings that nobody can afford to live in. Right?
 
So is this going to make more housing that's affordable for working class people. And then also, I think the other piece, the big piece of what we're hoping to do in the film is like, you know, a lot of white people oppose projects. Whether that's a subsidized affordable housing project, or even something like an apartment building, a duplex, a townhouse in their community… there's a prejudice there. Right. And so really, sort of like stopping and thinking through, examining that, I think, is the other thing I would really like, challenge people to do. Because the people who are going to move into those places, like are literally the people in our film. And so like, someone like, you know, someone like Jacque, like, I'd be happy to have her as a neighbor, right. Like, she's an amazing person. Like, that is sort of the reality, not the stereotypes that you see and hear on… I don't know on NextDoor or whatever.
 
John Betancourt: The last question I have for you today. What are you most proud of when it comes to this project?
 
Kevin Duncan Wong: Um, the thing that I am most proud of is how everybody that's in the film has responded to it. So, we're doing something called an impact campaign, which is, we're trying to raise money to take the film around the country and do free community screenings. And we were applying for a grant for that. And part of that was we asked a couple of people in the film, to sort of like, we had given them a copy of the film to watch, and we asked them to just record something, saying how they felt about it and like, why they supported the project. And Jacque, who's one of the participants in the film, Jacque said, you know, “I started doing this film, because I wanted people to see what was going on and I wanted people to like know what was wrong, but the process of making this film helped me realize how strong I am and how much capacity I have to make a difference.” And that is like the best gift, like her taking something away from the process like that, it's just really like makes me feel, no matter what else happens… no matter… if nobody else sees it, no matter if it doesn't get distribution, like that, I think is the best, the best thing out of this whole thing.
 
This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

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